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Thread: CTP - Violet, Thermal or Conventional ?

  1. #61
    Junior Member prepressoft is on a distinguished road
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    Thermal is the best

    UV is dying

    Even the conventional is getting beter, but the machine price is very high. And what do you expect with conventional plate? Quality is not stable even in one batch, also try to measure in one plate, you can get different density in different places.
    For offset magazine you still can use it, but for offset label printer, all label will got different result.
    Also the dots is "hairy" when you see it with 100x microscope

    Thermal, even you output cyan today and magenta next month, you still can get a good registered images and stable density. With a very sharp dots as always.

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  3. #62
    Donor dejanzl is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by prepressoft View Post
    UV is dying

    Even the conventional is getting beter, but the machine price is very high. And what do you expect with conventional plate? Quality is not stable even in one batch, also try to measure in one plate, you can get different density in different places.
    For offset magazine you still can use it, but for offset label printer, all label will got different result.
    Also the dots is "hairy" when you see it with 100x microscope

    Thermal, even you output cyan today and magenta next month, you still can get a good registered images and stable density. With a very sharp dots as always.
    I will talk about Luscher UV
    I agree that machine price is high, not very high, quality you can control with good developer device and non chinese plate, we use Cinkarna CtCP yellow dot plate and we produce plate with 175lpi on 2400x2400dpi, that is good quality for every day job, with price for plate about 5$/m2, that is much less then termal, speed depends on the number of laser diodes that participate in the process of lighting so if you use 32 laser diodes and try to expose B1 plate that will need 7 min per plate, with 64 diodes time is 5 min per plate, that is great time for producing and we with 4 offset machines with 5 color print can serve with one Luscher.
    for extra quality job we use Heidelbert Prosetter and produce 200lpi on 2540x2540 dpi
    that is for magazine and high end print on Agfa Lithostar plate, that plate is expansive but quality is satisfied

    Also the dots is "hairy" when you see it with 100x microscope
    is not exactly true, dot shape depends mostly on the quality of boards and manufacturers, so if you want to use plate for 1$/m2 you will receive hairy dots, but if you use better plate with luscher and every turn autofocus you will receive decent dot.

  4. #63
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prepressoft View Post
    UV is dying

    Even the conventional is getting beter, but the machine price is very high. And what do you expect with conventional plate? Quality is not stable even in one batch, also try to measure in one plate, you can get different density in different places.
    For offset magazine you still can use it, but for offset label printer, all label will got different result.
    Also the dots is "hairy" when you see it with 100x microscope

    Thermal, even you output cyan today and magenta next month, you still can get a good registered images and stable density. With a very sharp dots as always.
    I dont like sound rude, but you have wrong information.
    First, densitometer is good for paper, for plate you must to use plate reader.
    Second. Creo/kodak have tolerance 2%. So it' not so perfect.
    Third. Offset magazine require high quality plate production same as label printing.
    Hairy dots? Please include picture atachment.
    You have my post with pictures side by side IR and UV plate 400% enlargment. There is no difference.
    Fourth. Registration image have nothing with exposing technology. It's case of devices manufacturing flaw . For your info if you have problem with thermal sensor inside creo you will have difference between plates.
    Fifth. Did you measure deviation? And please don' t tell me that main reason for deviation when you repeat job is printing plates!
    Please be objectiv and don't write unproved information.

    Quote Originally Posted by dejanzl View Post
    for extra quality job we use Heidelbert Prosetter and produce 200lpi on 2540x2540 dpi
    that is for magazine and high end print on Agfa Lithostar plate, that plate is expansive but quality is satisfied
    hi dejanzi your "non voting post" is good but there is room for improvement

    you have possibilities to compare directly two different devices and two different technologies in real production.
    i am curious to know
    what is the reason for 200 lpi? customer asks? for what kind of jobs? why you don't use non periodic screening in that case? do you
    why you can't produce 200 lpi on uv?
    is it promblem that luescher hw can't produce 200 lpi - i must to ask :) - or plates are bad quality? did you measure?
    plates are good but prints fails?

    you are only one who mention printing press in your company so i assume that you track whats happen in pressroom
    what is your experience with repeatability.
    ps
    no prob if you are too busy to answer
    Last edited by super silja; 07-08-2011 at 02:28 AM.

  5. #64
    PRC Member congproprint will become famous soon enough congproprint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triky View Post
    I'm not agree.
    me too!

    Conventional Plate is never good to be like thermal Plate.

  6. #65
    Junior Member Clevedemo is on a distinguished road
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    Thermal

    Thermal is the preferred method for Kodak systems, kodak seem to have the edge. I say Thermal.

  7. #66
    Junior Member slayer is on a distinguished road
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    ctcp

    ctp devices actually caused by problems ctcp machines. the problem is usually prossesor and welded plate. If you do not work and the way technology works the same principle of thermal machines. I used a period of CTCP lücher 2 years. developer is usually a mixture of mold and mold problems caused by changes on the enamel layer. bird ctcp machines, thermal cameras to capture the quality that is required to use a longer period of time when the laser is increased. compromising the quality of the point so often by shortening the time to give the users. According to today's thermal plate is quite reasonable costs and other molds. quality, time, and to avoid compromising the quality reprint of thermal machines will be the best choice. technology development in this direction has already. I'm sorry for my English is bad.

  8. #67
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slayer View Post
    ctp devices actually caused by problems ctcp machines. the problem is usually prossesor and welded plate. If you do not work and the way technology works the same principle of thermal machines. I used a period of CTCP lücher 2 years. developer is usually a mixture of mold and mold problems caused by changes on the enamel layer. bird ctcp machines, thermal cameras to capture the quality that is required to use a longer period of time when the laser is increased. compromising the quality of the point so often by shortening the time to give the users. According to today's thermal plate is quite reasonable costs and other molds. quality, time, and to avoid compromising the quality reprint of thermal machines will be the best choice. technology development in this direction has already. I'm sorry for my English is bad.
    Just to ask, if i understan well in short
    Uv ctp tchnology is ok,
    Main problem is developer
    You use uv ctp 2 years
    You must to regulary check plate with plate reader
    If you increase power to speed up ctp, you have ablation.
    You can reprint old jobs made with themal ctp with good quality
    Ok?
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  10. #68
    Junior Member Deaken is on a distinguished road
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    Trillian Thermal plates for conventional and UV inks. works great

  11. #69
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deaken View Post
    Trillian Thermal plates for conventional and UV inks. works great
    how long you use Trillian Thermal plates?
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  12. #70
    Junior Member rafael_dvg is on a distinguished road
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    Thermal CtP

    the thermal technology possesses the most advanced technologies with a sufficiently accessible cost

  13. Your ad here

  14. #71
    ndoring10
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    thermal is future...

    I think thermal CTP is future... we have Heidelberg Topsetter P74 and we are very satisfied... Machine is reliable and fast... It is fully automatic...
    Prices of the violet plates are the same few years... Their price don't drop, because number of violet machines are very small... that gives us small volume of the violet plates and higher prices of the plates...
    I have spoken with few plates producers in China and they say that price of the violet plates will stay the same or price will go up...
    Prices of thermal ftp plates are falling and they have some 15% higher price now in China... Price of the Silver is skyrocketing and conventional way of production with film and conventional plates is dying... so demand will fall and price of conventional plates and thermal ctp plates will be the same in the future...
    CTF film price have been 30% higher than last year... and that will force printshops without ctp to go from CTF to CTP...
    Thermal is in this case first choice...

  15. #72
    Nemesis
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    Well we have all Heidelberg things. We have both Topsetter and Suprasetter thermal CtP machines. Naturally we use Metadimesion 7 rip and Signa Station for imposition. I can't speak which one is better technology from all mentioned since I have only been in touch with thermal technology every day. I saw others in work but not that much to call myself expert so I can compare them right way.

    Anyway, thermal in our company proved it's quality. Never failed. We only had problems with the developer machine Gluntz Jensen but those CtP machines never but never failed to operate great.

    For now we have used Fuji, AGFA, Kodak, Ipagsa and GPS plates. Developers we have used is Kodak Gold Star, Ampio, CTP 200 from Vela and GPS developer. The best one was CTP 200 from Vela. There was no plate that developer couldn't to develop. Literally all plates we were using in CtP were successfully developed with that developer.

    Currently we use Kodak Capricorn plates, AGFA LT2 plates and those GPS. GPS is Holland based company and they have decent plates which are bit cheaper from plates mentioned above.

    Anyway I can say thermal technology is pretty stable. It gives great and repeatable results over time. And plates are pretty durable with insane number of effective impressions.

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  17. #73
    Junior Member awerticulin69 is on a distinguished road
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    dont flood!

    in my opinion the violet chemistry free

    Quote Originally Posted by kospe View Post
    I use AGFA Palladio II with violet plates.

    I noticed some inaccuracies in the plates. Analizing the entire plate area, there is a fair variability of the screens percentages, especially at low values (2-5%).

    Often I notice also a variability from plate to plate: it is difficult to have a stable exposure level.

    Are the thermal CTP more accurate?

    thx
    hello

    this is due the exposure system is not drum. it is imposible to measure the same dot in one side or the other of the plate.

    thermal is much more acurrate due to the drum system
    Last edited by super silja; 08-29-2011 at 12:22 PM. Reason: dont flood!

  18. #74
    Donor dejanzl is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    hi dejanzi your "non voting post" is good but there is room for improvement

    you have possibilities to compare directly two different devices and two different technologies in real production.
    i am curious to know
    what is the reason for 200 lpi? customer asks? for what kind of jobs? why you don't use non periodic screening in that case? do you
    why you can't produce 200 lpi on uv?
    is it promblem that luescher hw can't produce 200 lpi - i must to ask :) - or plates are bad quality? did you measure?
    plates are good but prints fails?

    you are only one who mention printing press in your company so i assume that you track whats happen in pressroom
    what is your experience with repeatability.
    ps
    no prob if you are too busy to answer
    For some jobs, like carpets catalogue... customer ask for finest detail, that is reason why, generally i must say "customer need that quality"!

    I must ask you or any other who read this forum, is your opinion based on pure theorizing or has some direct connection with practical work-final product?
    Answers like "I have to disagree Thermal plates is better"... or something like that is meaningless and unprofessional in my opinion. If you wand to pay 6-8 euros per thermal plate and produce flayer in 10000 copies where is your calculation?

    Everybody must agree with price for UV plate via thermal plate. I work in the press firm and we have more then 100 jobs per mont with circulation around 1000-5000 per job so if you have more difference jobs with small circulation i suggest to use UV plate.

    why you don't use non periodic screening in that case?
    we can use "non periodic" or stochastic raster but if you ask me for that you must know what equipment is needed to produce that quality and uniform in final product, and you must know where is problem in the press room with that raster.
    We use Heidelberg Hybrid raster, and in my personal opinion that is better and easier to follow process of printing.

    why you can't produce 200 lpi on uv?
    Xpose Luscher can't produce more then 175 lpi, that is limit.

    Nemesis say:
    Anyway I can say thermal technology is pretty stable. It gives great and repeatable results over time. And plates are pretty durable with insane number of effective impressions.


    If you pay for a plate around 10$ then you need repeatable results over time, but we don't have circulation more then 300k printing shits and don't need that perfect plates, after all we can always make new plate with same raster percent. You may know that if you want to use plate again for some reprint that plate must be conserved and adequately guarded.

    Finally, I must say, no one is absolutely right that the thermal plate so much better than uv I believe that no one would use uv and markets could be collapsed but we have witnessed an increasing exploitation, especially in the UV plate web press, for a more different jobs with relatively small circulation.

    Reduction in production costs is the desire of every owner!

    Prepressoft:
    Also the dots is "hairy" when you see it with 100x microscope....
    try to measure in one plate, you can get different density in different places.


    obviously you did not see any other dot...

    this is childish...

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  20. #75
    Nemesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejanzl View Post
    If you pay for a plate around 10$ then you need repeatable results over time, but we don't have circulation more then 300k printing shits and don't need that perfect plates, after all we can always make new plate with same raster percent. You may know that if you want to use plate again for some reprint that plate must be conserved and adequately guarded.
    Well we use Kodak pre baking liquid. In our developer machine (Gluntz Jensen) we are using that liquid mixed with water and protect the plate right out of it because sometimes we reprint jobs.

    And concerning technologies mentioned here they all exist with a reason. My personal experiences are that Thermal is very stable way of production. And in our company it pays off itself pretty well.

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