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Thread: Best RIP for HP Z2100 printer?

  1. #1
    Junior Member devrost is on a distinguished road
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    Best RIP for HP Z2100 printer?

    Does anyone in this forum worked succesfully with HP Z2100 or other Z series printer and a RIP program?

    Does it provide better quality than Qimage?

    Does it utilize the on-board spectrophotometer of Z printers?


    Anyone?

  2. #2
    aaron125
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    I've not used an HP printer for a few years but I know a few people who run Z2100 & Z3200 printers using both the standard Windows drivers & also EFI ColorProof XF RIP & also one person who used to use ImagePrint RIP but now uses the Windows driver.

    In terms of quality of prints, it really depends if you are selling the prints in an exhibition/gallery setting & have such demanding clients that they will actually notice any difference at all (there are so few buyers that fall into this group it is not worth even concerning yourself about them) that matters. I could just about guarantee that anyone inspecting your prints that closely will definitely not be paying good money to purchase said prints.

    Any real, actual paying customer who wants the print to hang on their wall or put into a shop or somehwere similar could not care in the slightest what the print quality will be like because these printers produce such high quality output that it would be all but invisible to anyone except people like us. A real paying customer wants a good looking print on their wall, not a "high quality" print - if the image is a great image, the print (as long as you have some idea what you're doing) will look great.

    Getting back to your initial concern, there used to be subtle improvements possible with ImagePrint when printing B&W but now the drivers & profiling apps are sufficiently advanced that the improvements, if there are any, are very difficult to see without direct side-by-side comparison. Show someone a print made with the standard driver & the same image printed through EFI XF or ImagePrint & there is no way they could tell which was which.

    I am currently in the process of linearizing & profiling a few papers used with my 3880 & EFI ColorProof XF 4.5 to see for myself if there are any tangible image quality improvements over the Windows driver & careful post-processing/photoshop printing. It's going to take me a few weeks but I really don't know if there will be much, if any improvement. Now, XF 4.5, when using the RIP/printer as RGB actually does in fact use the manufacturers own ink mixing/screening/ink limits/etc & not the RIPs own specific recipe. It is only when using the printer/RIP as halftone CMYK that the user even has anything they can alter concerning ink limits, etc. That is how far advanced the manufacturers settings & drivers are these days.

    So really, best thing & in the end, the only thing you can do is to make the comparisons for yourself on your own printer. No matter what I or anyone else says, it still comes down to your abilities & the fact that the Z2100 & standard driver is so good anyway. As long as you are carefully printing & measuring your profile targets & choosing the "correct" settings in the profiling app & driver settings, your output should be up to almost anyones standards. I'm not referring to proofing & delta E, I am talking about actual visible image quality. There just isn't much in it these days.

    Let me know how you go & if you need a hand or have some questions, ask away. Good luck & persevere & hopefully you will come to similar conclusions. What RIP are you thinking of using?

    P.S. forgot to mention that every profiling app & RIP (or just about all) produced in the past 2-3 years or so will use the built-in spectro.

  3. #3
    Junior Member jokjaproduction is on a distinguished road
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    Compatible software for HP Designjet printers

    Actually i use Sai Photoprint for ripping image, include the separation process. So, i suggest you to try this one....good luck.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Tom.bim47 is on a distinguished road
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    HP Designjet

    Hello,

    I've made good experinces with Onyx Postershop. But for profiling I use Printopen and Profilemaker.

  5. #5
    Junior Member devrost is on a distinguished road
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    Thank you all for the info. I recently succesfully installed EFI Colorproof XF 4.5 in a Windows 7 32bit system and I 've come to the following assumptions.

    1) In general the EFI Linearization and profile creation gave me icc profiles with larger gamuts than the one provided with the printer (I use Chromata White Canvas for some art repro work). e.g. with Colorthink the provided icc profile from HP ita gave a gamut volume of 370 vs the 440 that EFI Color Manager produced.

    2) I 've got a serious problem though and I would some help. It seems that in the RGB workflow that I use there is a problem. The preview that EFI has is useless because even though I set the monitor profile and all the others correct the printed results come out a bit yellowish and with more saturation than I expect. I tried the visual correction method but I can't see much improvement. I 've spent a whole 44'' canvas roll of Chromata White and the results are still unpredictable. I tried all rendering intents and nothing came out.

    3) I then tried a patched version of HP APS and it seems that the RGB profile that creates plus the soft proof on Qimage Ultimate produced much more predictable results.

    Can someone help me with these?

  6. #6
    PRC Member mazengh is on a distinguished road
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    a vote for EFI

    I have tried Onyx, and EFI with a Z6100 which is a close to what you can get out of a Z2100... and I have to say that EFI (it's version 4.5) wins. It's easy to setup a workflow in EFI. You can choose ISO coated or Gracol. EFI makes use of the built-in spectro to linearize and profile the paper. Then with each print, if it's in a workflow that you picked to come with a verifier, you will have a small target printed for verification... If you read that using the EFI verifier and it passes, then that's the proof to your customers and your pressman that this is correct, and this is what needs to be matched.

  7. #7
    behre
    Guest
    I also think EFI is for this printer the best.

    But also GMG Colorproof is a very good RIP for this machine.

  8. #8
    aaron125
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    Quote Originally Posted by devrost View Post
    Thank you all for the info. I recently succesfully installed EFI Colorproof XF 4.5 in a Windows 7 32bit system and I 've come to the following assumptions.

    1) In general the EFI Linearization and profile creation gave me icc profiles with larger gamuts than the one provided with the printer (I use Chromata White Canvas for some art repro work). e.g. with Colorthink the provided icc profile from HP ita gave a gamut volume of 370 vs the 440 that EFI Color Manager produced.

    2) I 've got a serious problem though and I would some help. It seems that in the RGB workflow that I use there is a problem. The preview that EFI has is useless because even though I set the monitor profile and all the others correct the printed results come out a bit yellowish and with more saturation than I expect. I tried the visual correction method but I can't see much improvement. I 've spent a whole 44'' canvas roll of Chromata White and the results are still unpredictable. I tried all rendering intents and nothing came out.

    3) I then tried a patched version of HP APS and it seems that the RGB profile that creates plus the soft proof on Qimage Ultimate produced much more predictable results.

    Can someone help me with these?
    Hi devrost,

    1) When you say that ColorThink gave you a gamut volume of 370 vs 440, is that 370,000 vs 440,000 or is it just the numbers you wrote? I'm asking because I am more used to figures of around 700,000+ for printer profiles (e.g. for my 1st time profiling with EFI 4.5 on Epson Premium SemiGloss I got 760,180).

    2) Don't even use the preview in EFI, stick to Ps CS5, if that's what you have been using in the past. Have you been soft-proofing with Ps CS5 previously? Have you tried to soft-proof this same profile with Ps & if so, did you see the same yellowish + more saturation as per what you are experiencing in your actual prints?

    Where you say you "tried all rendering intents & nothing came out" does that mean when you tried printing using this profile the page came out completely blank, nothing at all on the page?

    3) As far as I know, the HP APS is simply using a cut-down version of XRite/Gretag i1 Match 3. If you have an i1 Pro spectro, I would recommend using i1 Match 3.62 or better yet, ProfileMaker Pro 5.0.10, which can be found on these forums.

    If you can attach your profile to your post, I'm happy to have a look at it & see what I can figure out from the profile.

    Please tell me your hardware setup, specifically: screen, printer, paper, profiling app(s), printing app(s), profiling hardware (i1, Isis, etc.) & anything else you can think of that would be pertinent to the problems you're experiencing.

  9. #9
    PRC Member mazengh is on a distinguished road
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    Tac?

    I think he means total area coverage... for example 370 total for CMYK...

    C 100
    M 100
    Y 80
    k 90

    This tells you that this is a very good paper.

  10. #10
    aaron125
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    A canvas paper is mentioned so if he's using the canvas it would not be possible to get anywhere near that sort of TAC. Actually, I think I might have just answered my own question, maybe because of the canvas substrate, the ColorThink gamut volume is down around 370,000? I've never used a canvas type of paper & there aren't any canvas papers in the Epson driver so I don't even have an Epson canned profile I could check to see if it's similar.

    Also, he mentions 370 vs 440, so would be difficult to get over 400 with just 4 inks...

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  12. #11
    Junior Member devrost is on a distinguished road
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    Hi aaron125,

    1) When you say that ColorThink gave you a gamut volume of 370 vs 440, is that 370,000 vs 440,000 or is it just the numbers you wrote? I'm asking because I am more used to figures of around 700,000+ for printer profiles (e.g. for my 1st time profiling with EFI 4.5 on Epson Premium SemiGloss I got 760,180).

    Yes I meant 370,000 vs 440,000. These numbers are low because I use matt canvas with HP Z2100 (7 color printer CMYK+Lg+Lc+Lm). The gamut plots are greater with glossy canvas and Semi glossy papers.


    2) Don't even use the preview in EFI, stick to Ps CS5, if that's what you have been using in the past. Have you been soft-proofing with Ps CS5 previously? Have you tried to soft-proof this same profile with Ps & if so, did you see the same yellowish + more saturation as per what you are experiencing in your actual prints?

    Yes I used PS Cs5 for softproofing and yes the results where closer to the printed outpout but no that close.


    Where you say you "tried all rendering intents & nothing came out" does that mean when you tried printing using this profile the page came out completely blank, nothing at all on the page?

    No just that the soft-proof results were away from the printed output with either method.


    3) As far as I know, the HP APS is simply using a cut-down version of XRite/Gretag i1 Match 3. If you have an i1 Pro spectro, I would recommend using i1 Match 3.62 or better yet, ProfileMaker Pro 5.0.10, which can be found on these forums.

    I tried Profiler Maker with i1 pro Sprectrophotometer but i think that the results I took from the HP APS where greater both in color smoothness and in accuracy and as I mentioned the soft proofing from Qimage resulted in very close-match.

    So let me tell you about my system and workflow and give me your opinions.

    My PC system: Win7 32bit, Intel i7 860, 4GB RAM, Printer HP Z2100 Monitor Eizo CG243W.

    Firstly I use an HP Z2100 for art reproduction work. I scan the original artwork with Cruse scanner and I take a huge (800mb - 1gb) file. In the scan I include a Colorchecker SG target for producing the scanner profile with ProfileMaker.

    When I open the file in Photoshop I assign the profile produced with PM 5 to the image I then convert the image to the working profile AdobeRGB in my case.

    I make some visual corrections to the image to make it come close to the original and then I send the file to EFI Colorproof XF 4.5

    EFI has been setup for RGB and photography workflow. I 've done the linearization procedure in Color Manager and I have selected the right papers and epl files.
    In the RGB workflow i select AdobeRGB as the RGB Source and Relative Colorimetric as a rendering intent with BPC.

    And then I sent to the printer and I get an image with too much yellow.

    What am I doing wrong??

    - My conclusions are that EFI color conversions between RGB and it's CMYK Printing engine have something todo. Another one is that when to EFI uses CMY combination instead the pure matte black ink the CMY is having some yellowish cast and that causes the yellowish results I' m seeing. I tried to change the black generation value in Color Manager to be 20 so as to use more matt black instead of the CMY combination)

    - I was wondering if the Serendipity MegaRIP with it's so called sofisticated soft-proof will yeld more predictable results. I want to try this software since from the specs I realise the it could better. It has support for the HP 2100 but I don't know if it utilises the onboard spectrophotometer for linearization and profile creation.

    Thanks for your time guys

  13. #12
    Junior Member cyrilain is on a distinguished road
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    i use colorproof

  14. #13
    Junior Member sherifgis is on a distinguished road
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    Maintop

    I have tried maintop with Hp 5500 and I have got excellent result an d it's very easy to use

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