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Thread: What you tell to your client ? Which PDF/X version to use ?

  1. #31
    Donor sambopen will become famous soon enough
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    I always recomment my client to PDF/X-1a or Press Quality preset (same version with X-1a just with live transparency, in case client is not good in object arrangement), and sometime X-4a for color management, not few.

  2. #32
    Junior Member Deaken is on a distinguished road
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    pdf

    We usually get PDF/X-1a but sometimes ppl also do something themselves.

  3. #33
    Donor momo.cassiopeia is on a distinguished road momo.cassiopeia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leila View Post
    No, it's simply because not every printer has the APPE2 RIP/workflow to handle PDF/x-4...
    point taken, i've seen an old panther rip just last week, still in action.


    Quote Originally Posted by leila View Post
    And of course you give us the money to "jump on that bandwagon" and buy all this stuff costing one kidney + one arm (+ your ball's skin), that Adobe will volontarily make obsolete 2 years later, although it's even not finish to pay?
    give you the money or the option to "jump on that bandwagon"? me? nope, not me, but actually isn't adobe already changing its licensing scheme/cost, not to be generous to us, the end user, for sure but it is happening.

    more and more consumable deals incorporate the software needed to use those consumables (plates, chemistry...). just last week i've seen a deal, just for plates, no printing press involved, that incorporated the last pdf workflow of the same company.

    goes without saying that a press purchase always leaves all kind of additional avenues for added workflow solutions open.

    but true to the word, the submitted file should always relate to the workflow in question, hence: depends! and not even pdf might be the best format supplied after all.

    but, question was: What you tell to your client ? Which PDF/X version to use ?

    and if i get a pdf/x-4 i got more options along the way to prepare the file for any possible rip, even if its a PS1 rip. answer stands: pdf/x-4, best possible pdf/x version to make anything out of if your short of the source documents.

    your thoughts? - leila

  4. #34
    Donor atorie is on a distinguished road
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    we still use x1a simply to keep it consistent for our clients, it's hard enough getting them to provide to spec and it is and changing it would only add to the confusion. The x1a works with all out RIPS so it just translates to less headaches.

  5. #35
    Banned leila is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by momo.cassiopeia View Post
    point taken, i've seen an old panther rip just last week, still in action.
    I still have a Viper 3 working


    more and more consumable deals incorporate the software needed to use those consumables (plates, chemistry...). just last week i've seen a deal, just for plates, no printing press involved, that incorporated the last pdf workflow of the same company.
    I never saw that kind of deal with plasetter or workflow, but I remember having such offers in the old times of films and plate copying... and the customer was linked to the supplier and obliged to buy the supplier's plates during some years at a cost that was much higher than the market price... at the end of the contract, the higher cost af the plates finally made the copy-machine cost 3 or 4 times more than buying it alone and buying plates separately!!!

    You know, business is business, and in the business there is no real gift: that kind of offers that seem to be cheaper are in fact a disguised credit... and in the credit business, the basic rule is that less the customer can pay, more he will have to pay.



    but, question was: What you tell to your client ? Which PDF/X version to use ?
    I ask for distilled PDF, prefering 1.3.

    But most of the time I cannot say to the customer what I need, and most of the time the customers don't know how to make PDF, so they simply click on "Export PDF", then "OK", and they send to me the files that come out of their computers!
    So, I get mainly 1.4 PDF exported from Adobe's softwares, some from Quark, but also 1.4 PDF made with "PDFcreator", in all cases without any possibility to get something else...

    For me, PDF/X is only a dream I know that it exists, but since 6 years I receive PDFs, I never got one!

    and if i get a pdf/x-4 i got more options along the way to prepare the file for any possible rip, even if its a PS1 rip.
    PDF/X4, keeping live transparencies in the PDF, of course gives more opportunities to control the transparencies flattening (PS RIPs) or rendering (APPE RIPs)...

    ... but good luck for imaging a PDF/X4 with a level 1 Postscript RIP: printing from Acrobat you'll only get "Postscript errors"!
    The only way is to rasterise the PDF with Photoshop, or export from Acrobat in raster pictures, TIFF or JPEG, and image these raster pictures... but it's low-quality crappy butcher job!

    No more hope with a level 2 RIP... PDFs in a PS2 RIP often give unpredictable text output: most often the end of some lines of text are imaged twice superimposed and shifted... the only way to fix this problem is to outline all the texts... with the problem of loosing the hints of the font and raising the weight of the files and the ripping time.

    In fact the first RIPs really able to image PDF, allowing to keep them in vector mode and keeping the hints in the fonts are PS 3 RIP. Most of the PS3 RIP are also PDF-RIP, but compatible 1.3 only, and having problems with exported PDF, like, for example, HQ 5.3 and Viper 3, that are both PDF-RIP for 1.3 PDF, but both are unable to handle exported 1.3 PDF! Global Graphics fixed the problem with the 5.5 update, but, althought the Agfa RIP is based on a true Adobe CPSI, neither Adobe nor Agfa never fixed this problem !)


    your thoughts? - leila
    My thoughts is that Adobe scientifically organizes and manages the incompatibility of the softwares sold to force the customers to always buy new softwares as soon are they are released.
    Of course, workarounds exists... again Adobe makes them so complex, so tricky and so time-consuming that finally the best solution always becomes to buy new softwares...
    Last edited by leila; 08-28-2011 at 02:47 PM.

  6. #36
    Junior Member Willie is on a distinguished road
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    Pdf/x-4

    PDF/X-4 is the shizzle - Love It

  7. #37
    shampa
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    Quote Originally Posted by leila View Post
    PDF/X4, keeping live transparencies in the PDF, of course gives more opportunities to control the transparencies flattening (PS RIPs) or rendering (APPE RIPs)...

    ... but good luck for imaging a PDF/X4 with a level 1 Postscript RIP: printing from Acrobat you'll only get "Postscript errors"!
    The only way is to rasterise the PDF with Photoshop, or export from Acrobat in raster pictures, TIFF or JPEG, and image these raster pictures... but it's low-quality crappy butcher job!
    You do realise that Acrobat will quite happily flatten the PDF/X4 into a PDF/X1 or PS 2/3.
    Postscript level 1? I'm surprised you can get anything usable out of a RIP that old! I would not trust anything earlier than a Postscript 3 RIP. Given that you can pick up a second hand PS3 RIP for practically nothing why would you use anything older?

  8. #38
    Junior Member por119 is on a distinguished road
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    PDF X1a is the best.

  9. #39
    jox
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    I never accept PDF from our customers. We make the design for them completely.

    We use only PDF/X-1a:2001. (pdf 1.3)

  10. #40
    Junior Member Imago is on a distinguished road
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    PDF/X 1a

    I've been using PDF/X 1a without problems! Good to know others seem to be experiencing the same results.

  11. Your ad here

  12. #41
    Donor momo.cassiopeia is on a distinguished road momo.cassiopeia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leila View Post
    ... but good luck for imaging a PDF/X4 with a level 1 Postscript RIP: printing from Acrobat you'll only get "Postscript errors"!
    would never dare print from acrobat, but using acrobat itself to force down convert back to pdf/x1 if need be, worst case scenario, using distiller and refrying those pdfs (again, some new workflows even offer to do that for you), always got me the results i needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by shampa View Post
    You do realise that Acrobat will quite happily flatten the PDF/X4 into a PDF/X1 or PS 2/3.
    thanks shampa, thats what i mean/meant/would like to instil. adobe acrobat itself allows you most tasks you would ever need to prepare those pdf/x4 files to your needs. including color management, not the best, but sufficient. color remapping, and flattening if need be.

    i just cant see why high quality, flexible since still transparent, pdfs are such a mood killer issue?

    any chance you could send me pdf/x4 file thats not working for you and i'll resafe it into pdf/x1 and document all the steps taken?

    Quote Originally Posted by leila View Post
    My thoughts is that Adobe scientifically organizes and manages the incompatibility of the softwares sold to force the customers to always buy new softwares as soon are they are released.
    Of course, workarounds exists... again Adobe makes them so complex, so tricky and so time-consuming that finally the best solution always becomes to buy new softwares...
    now thats a point we both go conform, 100%!

    adobe is no software developer anymore but a huge marketing factory.

    how come no one is complaining about their monopoly status?

    how come we all just put up with their strategies?

    doesn't anyone here see a "quark attitude" (overly confident to never loose your marketshare) repeat itself again!

    is there no one out there to challenge them at least a little bit?
    Last edited by momo.cassiopeia; 09-06-2011 at 05:22 AM.

  13. #42
    Junior Member yura is on a distinguished road
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    PDF/X-1 2001 only
    g'd profile

  14. #43
    Junior Member Imago is on a distinguished road
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    I sometimes have to convert PowerPoint posters to PDF in my print work-flow. When I use PDF/X-1 2001 it generally works the best and most consistently, but sometimes when transparencies are used, these get filled black and I have to revert to a standard print quality PDF conversion.

  15. #44
    PRC Member congproprint will become famous soon enough congproprint's Avatar
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    for brothers! please read the last document from Screen TRUEFLOW system (but use for all prepress system)

    This document is composed of technical information for PDF/X-1a and PDF/X-4,
    also tips and relevant cautions how to create or send proper and acceptable data from the latest application to Trueflow system:
    [url]http://www.printroot.com/forum/f29/trueflow-dtp-output-guideline-14th-edition-3759/[/url]

  16. #45
    Donor vileda is on a distinguished road
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    Here is the same...We use only PDF/X-1a:2001. (pdf 1.3)

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