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Thread: RIP/Proof software for HP DesignJets?

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    Donor oxident will become famous soon enough
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    Question RIP/Proof software for HP DesignJets?

    Hi!

    I'm wondering if anyone here has experiences with RIP software for HP DesignJet Z-series printers. Currently, I'm using ColorGate and also trying to start with Fiery XF but there are some points I cannot advance further.

    First of all, do you think, those printers are suiteable for decent color reproduction (in terms of gammut)?

    What kind of output mode do you use?
    Colorgate offers continous tone in either RGB or CMYK colorspace and also half tone mode in CMYK, CMYKlmlc, CMYKRlmlc, ...
    Fiery XF offers only CT in RGB or CMYK mode.

    Thanks for any thoughts!

  2. #2
    PRC Member spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxident View Post
    Hi!

    I'm wondering if anyone here has experiences with RIP software for HP DesignJet Z-series printers. Currently, I'm using ColorGate and also trying to start with Fiery XF but there are some points I cannot advance further.

    First of all, do you think, those printers are suiteable for decent color reproduction (in terms of gammut)?

    What kind of output mode do you use?
    Colorgate offers continous tone in either RGB or CMYK colorspace and also half tone mode in CMYK, CMYKlmlc, CMYKRlmlc, ...
    Fiery XF offers only CT in RGB or CMYK mode.

    Thanks for any thoughts!
    what do you call decent color reproduction???

    if you want to achieve fogra 39 or fogra 51 it depends on the proofing material too!

    gmg colorproof was bundled witch hp z2100 and with this combination it might be possible to get certified proofs. but its much more harder than using an epson printer.

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    Donor oxident will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    what do you call decent color reproduction???
    Yes, it sounds funny if I'll read it over again
    I've meant how to achieve a reasonable gammut.


    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    if you want to achieve fogra 39 or fogra 51 it depends on the proofing material too!
    So far, I've started testing with a semi-matte photographic paper which states to be "Fogra certified" and then I've even bought an expensive roll of Colorgate's own proofing paper, called "CG IsoProof 200" but the results remain the same:
    When comparing the gammut to Fogra 39, it looks nearly perfect but verification always fails due to some deltaE values being higher than allowed (mostly Primaries Max but also Average).

    Colorgate achieves way better results than Fiery XF but even in the best case, the deltaE tolerance is bet by an amount of at least 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    gmg colorproof was bundled witch hp z2100 and with this combination it might be possible to get certified proofs. but its much more harder than using an epson printer.
    Well, okay, I'll try to get GMG Colorproof but what exactly do you mean when you say it's "harder"? Does it take more device link optimization steps, larger number of profiling patches, more expensive substrate or even manual adjustments?

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    Esko / HP DFE 4.0 work great with HP indigo, I don't know wether it'll work with designjets...
    It has the best of the old nexus rip with some cool essential AE tickets

    cheers
    -s

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    Donor oxident will become famous soon enough
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    Hmm, not sure but as those machines are quite different (HP DesignJets are thermal large format inkjet/latex printers) I don't think that any Indigo application is suitable here...

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    If the HP specific dfe is not suitable I'm sure that the esko generic dfe 2.0 is.

    cheers
    -s

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    Donor oxident will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    ... with this combination it might be possible to get certified proofs. but its much more harder than using an epson printer.
    Would you say, the Epson SC-P9000 / P9000V would be a good choice for using Colorgate or EFI Fiery XF in order to make proofing a little bit easier?
    Would you recommend getting the "Spectro" version of those printers or rather using a standalone i1pro(2) for this task?

    Thanks for your valueable opinions!

  8. #8
    PRC Member spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxident View Post
    Would you say, the Epson SC-P9000 / P9000V would be a good choice for using Colorgate or EFI Fiery XF in order to make proofing a little bit easier?
    Would you recommend getting the "Spectro" version of those printers or rather using a standalone i1pro(2) for this task?

    Thanks for your valueable opinions!
    i dont know the SC-P9000. we are still happy with our StylusPro 7900.

    but i wouldnt recommend built in spectrometers at all.

    you have much more opportunities with an external hand held device. built in measure instruments often require much bigger color patches. so you are waisting more ink and material! you have to wait for drying time before you can measure the patches. during this time the printer is blocked and cant be used for other print outs.
    integrated spectrometers are not supported by older software versions!
    if some proofing standards are changing (e.g. new measurement conditions for fogra 51) you might trash your built in spectro device and buy an expensive new device.
    and its very important do do all color measurements with the same device! a built in spectrometer cant take reference color samples or evaluate third party proofs / printing sheets!

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    Donor oxident will become famous soon enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    you have much more opportunities with an external hand held device. built in measure instruments often require much bigger color patches. so you are waisting more ink and material! you have to wait for drying time before you can measure the patches. during this time the printer is blocked and cant be used for other print outs.
    Yes, this are indeed some really important points. Being an HP fanboy, I would really like to know if the Epson printers don't do internal (re-)linearizations with these expensive ILS devices? Or are those printers really meant to be fully "remote controlled" by the RIP application?

    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    and its very important do do all color measurements with the same device! a built in spectrometer cant take reference color samples or evaluate third party proofs / printing sheets!
    That didn't came into my mind. Thanks for pointing that out!
    Do you think, an i1pro2 (aka EFI ES-2000) would be sufficient for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    i dont know the SC-P9000. we are still happy with our StylusPro 7900
    It seems to me that both printers are quite the same. As I'm still trying to figure out the negative aspects of a SureColor/StylusPro against my HP Z6800 I was wondering how long the Epson devices need to print out an Arch D or ISO A1 sized image on matte paper... my HP needs about 5min in good and 10min in best quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oxident View Post
    Yes, this are indeed some really important points. Being an HP fanboy, I would really like to know if the Epson printers don't do internal (re-)linearizations with these expensive ILS devices? Or are those printers really meant to be fully "remote controlled" by the RIP application?


    That didn't came into my mind. Thanks for pointing that out!
    Do you think, an i1pro2 (aka EFI ES-2000) would be sufficient for this?

    It seems to me that both printers are quite the same. As I'm still trying to figure out the negative aspects of a SureColor/StylusPro against my HP Z6800 I was wondering how long the Epson devices need to print out an Arch D or ISO A1 sized image on matte paper... my HP needs about 5min in good and 10min in best quality.
    ok, here are some of my experiences:

    we have bought a gmg colorproof bundle with hp z2100. imho gmg ist still the best for contract proofing with great delta e values. i was very excited to get a printer with built in i1 measurement for full automatic self calibration. but to be honest we didnt get great delta e and inline calibration was pain in the ass since the color patches are much too big and we had to do 3 or more iterations to get desired delta e. one day the printer got broken and hp support sucks so much it was cheaper to buy a new epson 7900 than to repair the rubbish hp printer. after installation of the epson with profiles out of the gmg box we got the wanted delta e without any hassle. the epson / gmg setup is running now for 3 years and no profile adjustment was necesarry. i check the media wedge from time to time on an irregular basis but we are still proofing inside tight tolerances and get a green check mark for all proofs without any recalibration or linearization in all the time! even without original gmg proofing paper!

    i would recommend an i1pro 2 for setting up your proofer and checking the proof results from time to time. this is the most versatile solution and industry standard nowadays.

    choosing this device you are free to switch the proofing device whenever you want or you may evaluate even more than one printer with getting consistent measurements.
    Last edited by spider; 06-30-2016 at 11:20 AM.

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  14. #11
    Donor oxident will become famous soon enough
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    Cool. That's really valueable information.
    Now I'm facing the problem that I could either buy a brand new SC-P9000 or Canon iPF8400 (both around 4,500$) or a used Stylus 9900 (6 years old, still no nozzles out, included spectro, <1000 prints for around 2,000$) and I'm quite unsure which one to choose.

    I've read many disappointing posts about people with failing Epson printheads or other parts which quickly leads to really expensive maintenance and therefore I fear buying such a printer.

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