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Thread: X-Rite Profile Editor 5.0 doesn't register selective color modification

  1. #1
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    X-Rite Profile Editor 5.0 doesn't register selective color modification

    Hello,

    I am writing to you because it's been a few days that x-Rite PE 5.0 is driving me crazy with the "Selective Color" panel.

    What I am doing is:
    - Creating an ICC Profile for a specific camera using a ColorChecker image and importing everything in Profile Maker.
    - Importing this profile in Profile Editor to make some modifications.
    - Saving the new version of the ICC Profile and using it in Photoshop.

    Even if "Global Correction" and "Curves" panels works perfectly I am going crazy with the "Selective Color" one because, no matter what I do, when I save the new ICC Profile the modifications I have done simply disappear.
    Another thing that I have noticed is that if I use the eyedropper to select a color in an image the slider in the Selective Color panel show a different color...

    Is there anybody who has experienced the same problem?

    Do you know any guide that I might follow?
    I tried to look up online but I haven't found anything.

    Thank you very much for your help,
    you would really make my day...


    Ale

  2. #2
    Donor mcjam45 is on a distinguished road
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    There are a few things to pay attention to:
    - As you are editing a camera profile, the direction should be RGB > LAB.
    - Did you apply the edits to a range of colors or to unique colors? If the later were the case, it may be that that you don't see the effect in photoshop because the image doesn't contain these exact colors.
    - By default PM applies the edits only to the perceptual mapping so many effects will only be visible after you convert from camera profile to working space in photoshop using the perceptual rendering intent.

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  4. #3
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    Hello,

    thank you very much for your reply, I am sorry for getting back to you so late.

    So...
    1) Yes, when I edit the profile the direction il RGB --> LAB
    2) I apply the modifications to a wide range of colors (just to try) but nothing has changed and I am sure that these colors where included in the image I was working on. Moreover I even tried to change the white point but I can't see any difference when I apply the profile.
    3) I did not get your third point: what I am doing is not converting one image from one color space to another but applying a different color space. Basically I use the ICC Profile I create directly in Capture One while shooting.

    My workflow is the following:
    - I shoot with capture one and I set the curve to "Linear Response"
    - I use as ICC Profile the one I've created with Profile Maker and the ColorChecker Card that I've previously shot and processed in capture one (curve: "linear response", ICC Profile "no color correction").

    Also, I've tried to change the white point in a profile, saving it as a new profile and then comparing the two profiles in color think.
    When I graph the profiles the program shows that they actually different but when I apply them to an image in photoshop the results are the same.

    Thank you very much!


    Ale

  5. #4
    Donor mcjam45 is on a distinguished road
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    3) I did not get your third point: what I am doing is not converting one image from one color space to another but applying a different color space. Basically I use the ICC Profile I create directly in Capture One while shooting.
    To see your selective color modifications, you have to convert from camera profile to you working profile (sRGB, AdobeRGB and so on) using the perceptual rendering intent afterwards.
    The reason for this is that all the magic happens in the perceptual A2B tables of the camera profile that only will be used during the conversion from camera profil to LAB/XYZ.

    If you want to see a preview of your modification on screen without conversion to the working space, select Manual Mode in ProfileEditor's save dialog and check all three rendering intents.
    Last edited by mcjam45; 11-22-2012 at 04:20 AM.

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  7. #5
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    Thank you for your quick reply!

    I've tried what you suggested but apparently it doesn't work:
    -I've taken the original camera profile I've previously created in Profile Maker and I've changed the white point.
    - I've saved the new profile with all the ticks besides the various intent.

    Then I've applyed this new profile to my image in photoshop, without seeing any difference with the "normal" camera profile, and then I've converted the image to ProPhoto (my working profile), using a perceptual rendering, but nothing as happened!

    I guess I am missing something....

    Thank you very much!


    Ale

  8. #6
    Donor mcjam45 is on a distinguished road
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    Hi, what I wrote applies to selective color corrections in the first place, not to the white point correction.

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  10. #7
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    I love you....

    Yes, thank you so much, the problem was that I was selecting "perceptual" and "relative/absolute" but not "saturation" while saving in manual mode...

    I seize the occasion of having an expert like you here to ask you two more things:
    - Why, if I load an image in Profile Editor (with the same ICC Profile I am about to modify), in order to evaluate the changes straight away, it doesn't show any corrections while I am working? It doesn't work even if I click "Refresh"
    - How can I make the "Profile White Point" modifications work? I am experimenting the same problem I had with the "Selective Color".

    THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

  11. #8
    Donor mcjam45 is on a distinguished road
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    Glad it worked.

    - Why, if I load an image in Profile Editor (with the same ICC Profile I am about to modify), in order to evaluate the changes straight away, it doesn't show any corrections while I am working? It doesn't work even if I click "Refresh"
    Well, it should preview your edits. Are you talking about selective color corrections? If so, did you try to make a few radical edits in order to see the effect better (input=wide range in all three channels, output=completely different color)?

    How can I make the "Profile White Point" modifications work? I am experimenting the same problem I had with the "Selective Color".
    If you want the white point to shift visually according to your edits, you have to use the absolute colormetric rendering intent. Edit the white point in ProfileEditor --> save the profile with all three rendering intents checked --> go to Capture One preferences and change rendering to absolute colormetric --> select the profile in Capture One as input profile.

    May I ask what exactly you are trying to achieve? Because the whole approach we discussed here, especially the absolute colormetric thing, is by no means best practice if you just want to apply color modifications to your captured images.
    Last edited by mcjam45; 11-22-2012 at 04:55 PM.

  12. #9
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    Thank you for your answer!

    Let's go in order...

    1) No, it doesn't work...
    I tried to use images with both the profile I am about to modify embed or not but it never displays any correction. Even if I apply some crazy curves the image remains the same.

    2) The white point is not really a big issue, I was thinking about changing it in Capture One in first place but I was interested in making the whole program work... Thank you for the tip anyway! If I am not wrong the two best intent should be "Relative Colometric" and "Perceptual", right?

    3) My idea, with the ICC Profiles, was the following:
    - generating (with Profile Maker) a "base" profile thanks to a ColorChecker24 image, processed in Capture One with all the parameters set to 0. (ICC Profile = no color correction, Film Curve = Linear)
    - modify the ICC Profile just generated (with Profile Editor) to incorporate some color corrections directly in the profile. The aim here is to reach a better quality as, for istance, I've read that changing the gamma of the profile is the best way to recover an underexposed/overexposed image. As a consequence I thought it would have been the same also for the rest of color corrections. I even tried to apply the same curves in Photoshop and in Profile Maker (obviously the image in photoshop had the same profile I was modifying in Profile Maker) and the results are actually different.


    One final thing... Maybe you can help me here as well...
    I've generated the "base" ICC Profile from a 16bit tiff processed in Capture One with all the parameters set to 0 (as I previously said). The problem is that, with the new profile (before making any other modification in Profile Editor), I am now experimenting some strong banding, especially in the skin tones! The thing drive me crazy because I don't understand the reason: I even compared the newly generated profile with Adobe RGB 1998 in Color Think and my profile is actually, almost always, inside the perimeter of Adobe RGB! From what I new banding was the counter effect of working in a huge color space like ProPhoto...
    If you can help me here you would be my hero...

    THANKS

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