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Thread: UV Vs non-UV i1 or other Photospectrometer

  1. #16
    PRC Member moutonnoir is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron125 View Post
    No it isn't! Just don't waste your hard-earned on a UVcut device and problem solved. Do the FWA compensation in software.
    Aaron,

    thanks for the useful post. very useful post...

    I found, i think, the i1 you mention on ebay.. it is an ES-1000 - is this the REV B?
    Yes, both the Rev B and Rev D are EFI ES-1000 devices, being sold by a seller in my part of the world.
    Last edited by aaron125; 04-07-2012 at 02:22 PM. Reason: answer questions re: ES-1000

  2. #17
    aaron125
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    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    There is no i1 with pol filter,
    even new i1 pro device have not M3 condition
    and small correction

    if you have paper with OBA, without UV cut filter even with RCRI (relative calorimetric rendering intent) your print would have slightly yellowish cast.
    to clarify your sentence
    Absolutely untrue! I have a non UVcut i1Pro and I have made many profiles of papers containing FWA and have never seen this yellow cast you speak of. If the profile creation software is capable, it can accomodate the FWA without much hassles.
    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    people from paper mills would tell you that there is no paper without OBA
    Absolute rubbish! Don't know what crazy people from paper mills you've been speaking with but I can tell you there are huge number, perhaps even hundreds of different papers which contain ZERO FWA/OBA! Just off the top of my head, Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, Museo Silver Rag, any newspaper, several Hahnemuehle papers, and on and on.

    I have a portable hand-held black light, which emits UV and I have tested many papers which show absolutely ZERO reaction to the black light, confirming the fact that these papers contain ZERO FWA.
    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    with small amount of OBA you need non UV cut i1 ( usualy proof papers)
    with large amount of OBA you need UV cut i1. (usualy photo and production paper)
    Again, nonsense. Much better to do the compensation in software for reasons explained in previous post.
    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    Some software , like Xrite PM5 detect reemission in UV part light and try in software to avoid influence of OBA during profile generation.
    More nonsense silja. How could any software possibly detect anything in the UV range when the hardware device making the measurements does NOT detect anything below 380nm or 400nm, depending on the device. The software which performs FWA compensation detects a higher than 100% reflectance in the near UV range, specifically in the blue part of the spectrum. The only way this is possible to reflect more than 100% of the incident light is if there are FWA in the paper.
    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    With new M factor Xrite try ( and i hope that they do) to standardize measurement condition.
    I think that M condition meet ISO 13665 and they will show new stuff on DRUPA
    X-Rite has nothing to do with the M0-3 measurement conditions. The m0,m1,m2,m3 measurement conditions are part of the ISO 13665:2009 standard specification and were created by the ISO with help from many colour management companies, not just X-Rite. In fact, all spectros of just about ANY age are compliant with m0 as that is exactly what the m0 condition was designed for, to accomodate older hardware. To allow older hardware, which most often use a tungsten bulb, with spectra very close to Illuminant A. Again, older Gretag, Techon, Barbieri, etc. hardware ALL adhere to m0 measurement conditions as default.

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  4. #18
    PRC Member moutonnoir is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by moutonnoir View Post
    Aaron,

    thanks for the useful post. very useful post...

    I found, i think, the i1 you mention on ebay.. it is an ES-1000 - is this the REV B?
    Yes, both the Rev B and Rev D are EFI ES-1000 devices, being sold by a seller in my part of the world.
    I am sorry if this is too many questions, etc., but if I were to get a used EF-1000 and then later purchase legit iPublish, is this a compatible combo.

    I really appreciate the specifics in your advice and I can tell you are providing some informed opinions. It appears the EF-1000 Rev D has been sold - I am not sure about the ES-1000 in general though because I do think I may eventually end up with licensed iPublish - for ease of operation.

    Usually I figure a lot of this sort of stuff out on my own by just installing and working with software to see 'what it is all about'. Unfortunately the RIP and printing software is hard to find! Lots of people trying to sell things! I dont mind buying software, but I love using illigitimate copies to do evaluations - as the demo limitations, etc. just add complexity to evaluation..

  5. #19
    aaron125
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    Not 100% sure but I think the ES-1000 can be used exactly as an i1Pro device, with X-Rite software. Best to email EFI and X-Rite to confirm before spending the money. Although, at $200 for the Rev B, it isn't so expensive as a brand-new device.

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  7. #20
    PRC Member moutonnoir is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron125 View Post
    Not 100% sure but I think the ES-1000 can be used exactly as an i1Pro device, with X-Rite software. Best to email EFI and X-Rite to confirm before spending the money. Although, at $200 for the Rev B, it isn't so expensive as a brand-new device.
    I suppose I will likely get the i1pro basic new.. There is one used on ebay for $450 claiming it will make iPublish work - but it is UV cut (drat).

    Thanks again for the advice - it helps a lot as the color rabbit hole is very interesting, but so deep!
    Last edited by moutonnoir; 04-07-2012 at 03:38 PM.

  8. #21
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron125 View Post
    Absolutely untrue! I have a non UVcut i1Pro and I have made many profiles of papers containing FWA and have never seen this yellow cast you speak of. If the profile creation software is capable, it can accomodate the FWA without much hassles.
    thats what i said, you must to do something to improve your reading skills
    Absolute rubbish! Don't know what crazy people from paper mills you've been speaking with but I can tell you there are huge number, perhaps even hundreds of different papers which contain ZERO FWA/OBA! Just off the top of my head, Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, Museo Silver Rag, any newspaper, several Hahnemuehle papers, and on and on.
    that's what i said. people from paper mill would tell you ...
    I have a portable hand-held black light, which emits UV and I have tested many papers which show absolutely ZERO reaction to the black light, confirming the fact that these papers contain ZERO FWA.
    hand held black light can help you, but only measured values are valid. this greatest nonsense after your srgb claims
    Again, nonsense. Much better to do the compensation in software for reasons explained in previous post.
    maybe you're right. graphic art industry can learn from you.
    like
    srgb is only color profile.
    holorgraphic gratin have not resolution
    More nonsense silja. How could any software possibly detect anything in the UV range when the hardware device making the measurements does NOT detect anything below 380nm or 400nm, depending on the device. The software which performs FWA compensation detects a higher than 100% reflectance in the near UV range, specifically in the blue part of the spectrum. The only way this is possible to reflect more than 100% of the incident light is if there are FWA in the paper.
    you said how sw detect? and after that speak about 380nm interval. 380nm is UV? go back to school :)
    you're so funny when i read your post i think my self that somebody from kindergarden wrote this :)

    about 100% reemission. i must to confess that during all your paticipation in this forum you 're right. my mistake. i like to tell exactly you wrote but english is not my mother language and i need to concentrate. OBA detection in PM5 for example works exactly in that way
    but if i wrote this you will write exactly this :"How is possible to detect more than 100%, which is max values?"
    :)
    i know you you are troll :)
    X-Rite has nothing to do with the M0-3 measurement conditions. The m0,m1,m2,m3 measurement conditions are part of the ISO 13665:2009 standard specification and were created by the ISO with help from many colour management companies, not just X-Rite. In fact, all spectros of just about ANY age are compliant with m0 as that is exactly what the m0 condition was designed for, to accomodate older hardware. To allow older hardware, which most often use a tungsten bulb, with spectra very close to Illuminant A. Again, older Gretag, Techon, Barbieri, etc. hardware ALL adhere to m0 measurement conditions as default.
    you're totally wrong
    you have no idea how iso committee works. xrite scientist are part of ISO 13665 comitee.
    sorry mister rgb again nonsense from you
    go back to school and learn first what is srgb.
    +-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+
    |p|o|w|e|r| |t|o| |b|e| |y|o|u|r| |b|e|s|t|
    +-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+

  9. #22
    Junior Member Ray Vega is on a distinguished road
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    Gretag's advice

    A Gretag scientist once told me that the algorithms used in software on non-UV hardware filtered spectrophotometers are just as good in detecting optical brighteners as hardware filtration (someone before said polarizer, but that's incorrect, it's actually ultraviolet thin film coatings or the glass composition of the filter itself, but not polarization as I was told at least). For whatever it's worth...

  10. #23
    Junior Member Iceprojeckt is on a distinguished road
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    I am new here and it is a quite interesting subject in uv-cut and non-uv spectrometer..

    so can I conclude that non-uv spectrometer is for paper with no OBA at all?, while the other type with uv-cut is for those paper with OBA?

    another new questions:
    1. what is the print out effect if I create paper profile on a no OBA paper using uv-cut spectrometer and non-uv spectrometer?

    2. what is the print out effect if I create paper profile on a OBA paper using uv-cut spectrometer and non-v spectrometer?

    3. based on uv-cut spectrometer, which color on process printing (CMYK) will mostly affected by this filter?

  11. #24
    Junior Member nacito1234 is on a distinguished road
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    Generaly if you need measure Certified Proofs buy Spectrometer without UV filter, if not buy UV-CUT

    1.
    You can do compensation for OBA with UV-CUT or by the Profiling Software.

    2
    If the Profiling software support conpensation for OBA, the result will be very similar
    Measuring profile with spectrometer without UV filter and without software compensation will create visible errors in grey balance

    3. based on uv-cut spectrometer, which color on process printing (CMYK) will mostly affected by this filter?
    UV-CUT Spetrometer filter UV spectrum not visible by human eye

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