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Thread: UV Vs non-UV i1 or other Photospectrometer

  1. #1
    PRC Member moutonnoir is on a distinguished road
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    UV Vs non-UV i1 or other Photospectrometer

    I am looking at i1pros - can anyone briefly help me understand what the difference between UV and nonUV is?

    Does it have to do with use of the photospectrometer?

  2. #2
    Donor T. Schruda is on a distinguished road
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    i suppose you use google and will get so many precise answers.

    you can either buy a spectro that measures "all" light or one with a UV cut filter that doesnt measure the UV reflective - an advantage when using paper with OBAs..

    proofing standards in europe are measured without filter

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  4. #3
    Caden
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    Quote Originally Posted by moutonnoir View Post
    I am looking at i1pros - can anyone briefly help me understand what the difference between UV and nonUV is?

    Does it have to do with use of the photospectrometer?
    The i1 with uv is the i1 with a polorized filter added to the device (non removable). It is used to help compensate for the UV brighteners in the paper. Profiles will take on a blueish or yellowish hue (depending on the profiling software). The thing to remember is to calibrate and profile the printer using the same device. You can not switch from one i1 with UV and one without.

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  6. #4
    PRC Member moutonnoir is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caden View Post
    The i1 with uv is the i1 with a polorized filter added to the device (non removable). It is used to help compensate for the UV brighteners in the paper. Profiles will take on a blueish or yellowish hue (depending on the profiling software). The thing to remember is to calibrate and profile the printer using the same device. You can not switch from one i1 with UV and one without.
    Hmm.. so I am currently using only Epson brand papers - a wide range of them - i will probably use 10 different epson papers in the next two months... They are both matte and glossy and various in-betweens.

    is see now the paper brighteners are the issue - is it fair to say a single i1pro can work effectively for the range of epson papers?

  7. #5
    Junior Member rhguru is on a distinguished road
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    Yes, regular i1 will do its job good.
    Anyway it's all about what you expect from your output. UVcut / noUVcut is more important for precise proofing, when iterations are made and when you're looking for lowest deltaE in all points. Because in proofing its needed to use absolut colorimetric white reflection types is important, UVcuted i1 on european medias will make yellowish underprint and will not allow you to go less than 2deltaE on white. Most of euro proof papers have some whitener and then you need i1 noUVcut.
    For photography or large format printing this issue is not really important, because you use or relativ or perceptual colorimetric. I have made lot of profiles with different devices, including i1, in different configurations and I haven't seen a difference between UVcut or noUVcut devices. Well, photo/production profiling has different rules than proofing

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  9. #6
    PRC Member moutonnoir is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhguru View Post
    Yes, regular i1 will do its job good.
    Anyway it's all about what you expect from your output. UVcut / noUVcut is more important for precise proofing, when iterations are made and when you're looking for lowest deltaE in all points. Because in proofing its needed to use absolut colorimetric white reflection types is important, UVcuted i1 on european medias will make yellowish underprint and will not allow you to go less than 2deltaE on white. Most of euro proof papers have some whitener and then you need i1 noUVcut.
    For photography or large format printing this issue is not really important, because you use or relativ or perceptual colorimetric. I have made lot of profiles with different devices, including i1, in different configurations and I haven't seen a difference between UVcut or noUVcut devices. Well, photo/production profiling has different rules than proofing

    fabulous response. thank you for this, it really is specific and helpful.

    i am doing almost entirely graphic design related stuff - with certified pre-press proofs being an eventual goal as experience makes it a realistic goal. This is part my ongoing over-doing it interest in design (so now interested in color), and part to expand my small business.

    At the moment it is just for self education - very interested in color!

  10. #7
    aaron125
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    Polarizers don't selectively block UV and have never been factory supplied on i1Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Caden View Post
    The i1 with uv is the i1 with a polorized filter added to the device (non removable). It is used to help compensate for the UV brighteners in the paper. Profiles will take on a blueish or yellowish hue (depending on the profiling software). The thing to remember is to calibrate and profile the printer using the same device. You can not switch from one i1 with UV and one without.
    Are you sure it is a polarizing filter which has been added to the UVcut i1? I've never heard of this and have never seen anything regarding any polarization for any i1 device. Where did you get this info from? Also, how exactly would a polarizing filter get rid of just UV frequencies? Polarizers are not in any way frequency specific, to the best of my understanding. They work on the (surprisingly enough, HAHA) polarization of the light waves, not their frequency as such. Polarization only really is concerned with the 'direction' the light waves are travelling, so I don't think a polarizing filter would have any effect on UV or other specific wavelengths/frequencies of light, nor do I think any i1 has ever been sold with a built-in polarizing filter, direct from the Gretag or X-Rite factory.

    If a polarizer did actually somehow remove UV frequencies, wouldn't they have called the ancient Spectrolino which came with a polarizing filter, the Spectrolino UV? But they never did.

    If I'm mistaken, please educate and enlighten me.

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  12. #8
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    i1 with polarizer

    There is no i1 with pol filter,
    even new i1 pro device have not M3 condition
    and small correction
    UVcuted i1 on european medias will make yellowish underprint and will not allow you to go less than 2deltaE on white. Most of euro proof papers have some whitener and then you need i1 noUVcut.
    if you have paper with OBA, without UV cut filter even with RCRI (relative calorimetric rendering intent) your print would have slightly yellowish cast.
    to clarify your sentence
    Most of euro proof papers have some whitener and then you need i1 noUVcut.
    people from paper mills would tell you that there is no paper without OBA
    with small amount of OBA you need non UV cut i1 ( usualy proof papers)
    with large amount of OBA you need UV cut i1. (usualy photo and production paper)
    Some software , like Xrite PM5 detect reemission in UV part light and try in software to avoid influence of OBA during profile generation.

    With new M factor Xrite try ( and i hope that they do) to standardize measurement condition.
    I think that M condition meet ISO 13665 and they will show new stuff on DRUPA
    +-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+
    |p|o|w|e|r| |t|o| |b|e| |y|o|u|r| |b|e|s|t|
    +-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+

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  14. #9
    PRC Member moutonnoir is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    There is no i1 with pol filter,
    even new i1 pro device have not M3 condition
    and small correction

    if you have paper with OBA, without UV cut filter even with RCRI (relative calorimetric rendering intent) your print would have slightly yellowish cast.
    to clarify your sentence

    people from paper mills would tell you that there is no paper without OBA
    with small amount of OBA you need non UV cut i1 ( usualy proof papers)
    with large amount of OBA you need UV cut i1. (usualy photo and production paper)
    Some software , like Xrite PM5 detect reemission in UV part light and try in software to avoid influence of OBA during profile generation.

    With new M factor Xrite try ( and i hope that they do) to standardize measurement condition.
    I think that M condition meet ISO 13665 and they will show new stuff on DRUPA
    Yeah - this is what I have gathered from reading many, many forum posts on the subject..

    So, in reality, a way to evaluate OBA content in my prospective papers would be great - it appears for serious work both a UV and non-UV device are needed. There is no way I am buying both right now... Sadly.

    I was just about to settle on the non-uv device to do paper\printer profiling and monitor profiling.. Primarily for CMYK\pantone reproduction for graphic design. Proofs dont need certification or anything, but i am trying to push for extreme accuracy within my means.. Hence the epson 7900 purchase - much more printer than i really need..

    so, to profile aftermarket ink on the matte AND glossy AND proofing epson papers will basically require both a UV and non UV device?

    can xrite devices work on the same licensed version of their software? So if I get one license of iPublish with upgrades, both uv and non-uv device will work with it?

    ever hear of a, uh, non-oem, version of 'iPublish'?

    thanks for the info..

  15. #10
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    ov or non uve

    it's very hard to say what is better.
    KODAK with their proofing system supply i1 with UV cut
    with efi you can use it both devices

    i1 profile license is tighed to i1 device, or you can ( i am not sure) buy it with dongle.
    in that case you can use it any device.

    Or use iSis device. In a single chart measurement cycle you can read both UVcut and measurements with NoFIlter.
    +-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+
    |p|o|w|e|r| |t|o| |b|e| |y|o|u|r| |b|e|s|t|
    +-+-+-+-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+ +-+-+-+-+ +-+-+-+-+

  16. Your ad here

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  18. #11
    PRC Member moutonnoir is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    it's very hard to say what is better.
    KODAK with their proofing system supply i1 with UV cut
    with efi you can use it both devices

    i1 profile license is tighed to i1 device, or you can ( i am not sure) buy it with dongle.
    in that case you can use it any device.

    Or use iSis device. In a single chart measurement cycle you can read both UVcut and measurements with NoFIlter.
    I am afraid part of your advice goes over my head.. I am not sure what software I will end up with because the x-rite software is very expensive for hobby\learning\experimentation - and I am having trouble finding an appropriate alternative - ive got Onyx now installed and working, but the available RGB profiles for the epson 7900 are not looking ideal to me - though they may be good for my mostly CMYK workflow - i cannot tell without some sort of measuring device and some more experience...

    trying to replace the in-house experience i missed out on by going freelance early in my career.

    so sad they couldnt make the filter a option for the i1, so we wouldnt have to buy a new device with 90% overlapping functionality.... mean corporate decision, that one.

    also, a sincere thank you for the advice! i have been asking a ton of questions around your forums this week, but i promise it is because i want to learn, not to annoy you guys! the color management stuff is a huge subject, especially on a budget in terms of time and money!

  19. #12
    Member ColorProofer is on a distinguished road
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    What software do you want to use?

    e.g. ArgyllCMS relies on all the data so you have to use the non UV-cut i1Pro.

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  21. #13
    PRC Member moutonnoir is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorProofer View Post
    What software do you want to use?

    e.g. ArgyllCMS relies on all the data so you have to use the non UV-cut i1Pro.
    Argh!~!

    Hehe.. And i was just about to get the UV version as the salesman of some aftermarket inks i purchased says the UV version will work better with more papers I am likely to use because of their high whitener content...

    But I also am essentially poor cheapskate and cannot afford iPublish..

    Maybe a colorMunki design is more my speed at this moment..

  22. #14
    aaron125
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    I've recently seen 2 i1Pro UVcut on ebay for $200 rev B and $250 rev D. With prices like that, I would highly suggest you keep looking into getting an i1Pro. I would suggest NOT to get a UVcut device though as all decent profile creation software these days is able to detect and accomodate FWA/brighteners. I also believe it is a much better idea to do this in software, rather than the UVcut method, which is not much use because you will almost never be viewing the paper/prints in a lighting environment which also contains zero UV.

    That's the whole problem with UVcut devices - they don't behave the same way as we view our prints because they just get rid of all or most UV from the illuminant used to illuminate the patches being measured but as I just mentioned, it is extremely difficult to find a light source which also has no UV content. Remember, D50, D65, Danything contains quite a decent portion of UV in their spectra, so best to do the FWA compensation in software IMHO. Also, that way, as in BasICColor Print 3, one can even vary the amount of FWA compensation from 0% - 100% and everything in between. Not like the old days with PMP5, where there was just a check mark for FWA detection/compensation, now it is totally variable and user controllable.

    Hope this helps mate.

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  24. #15
    aaron125
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    Quote Originally Posted by moutonnoir View Post
    so sad they couldnt make the filter a option for the i1, so we wouldnt have to buy a new device with 90% overlapping functionality.... mean corporate decision, that one.
    No it isn't! Just don't waste your hard-earned on a UVcut device and problem solved. Do the FWA compensation in software.

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