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Thread: Testing media settings

  1. #1
    Donor Meatfish is on a distinguished road
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    Testing media settings

    I have been using an Epson 4900 and have been testing a baryta paper (Harman Gloss Baryta) on the various media type settings to find which lays down the optimum amount of ink. I'm having a slight problem in that visually all the results are so close it is a tough choice. Does anyone know of a software solution that could help or maybe has advice on the best test charts to use? How can I ensure the widest gamut AND best dmax?

  2. #2
    Donor eflatun is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meatfish View Post
    I have been using an Epson 4900 and have been testing a baryta paper (Harman Gloss Baryta) on the various media type settings to find which lays down the optimum amount of ink. I'm having a slight problem in that visually all the results are so close it is a tough choice. Does anyone know of a software solution that could help or maybe has advice on the best test charts to use? How can I ensure the widest gamut AND best dmax?
    IT8/7.4 test chart is wide enough if you are asking icc creation. I couldn't understand your question exactly. I don't know which software you are using to drive 4900 but there are many good proof solutions. If your printing process is out of standarts (UV printg, IML, plactic etc..) you can prefer GMG which works better via Device Link or your printing process close to any common printing profiles like ISO Coated, Gracol or SWOP, EFI might work better for simulation. Also you can consider Color Proof Pro by Heidelberg which uses same base inerazition method with EFI. I have heard about Oris but never tried till now. Check your proof paper white and try to find best match with your production material under UV light. It helps for color accurary. Let your proof software to define TIL and Linerization of channels. Create media profile with IT8/7.4. Simulate your target profile always as absolute. Make iteration if necessery. That s all to do. I hope you were asking about this.

    Good luck

  3. #3
    Member print2011 will become famous soon enough
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    I only use genuine ink and paper Epson Proof. No problem.

  4. #4
    aaron125
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    There is no such thing as 'the best test charts to use' because this relies 100% on the actual app you are using to create the profile. Either way, a test chart is simply just a bunch of various colour patches, so how can a particular collection of patches be better than another collection? Again, it completely relies on the app used to determine 'best test chart'.

    As for your methodology, there is little point trying to decide by purely visual means, which media setting is best as they are so incredibly close it isn't possible to see the difference.

    The only guaranteed way to accomplish what you ask is to use a colour measurement device/spectro and measure just ONE single chart, printed with the various media settings. Then, once you have the best performance (whatever that may be, you have to decide as the best Dmax might not have such good transitions or gamut or blah blah), that's when you can start to think about what the best chart to use will be. But remember, best chart for (e.g.) i1Profiler WILL NOT WORK for MonacoPROFILER or Color Toolbox, etc.

    Each app has specific test charts which are created for the profile creation engine running the app. So, the best chart to use is the one created from within the program you are using. A fine example of this is the ancient Bill Atkinson test charts - many people (used to) think they were the best to use but I have tested several apps and both PMP5.x and MonacoPROFILER 4.8 both had better quality profiles when using their own charts. This is even much more important if using the new i1Profiler as you MUST create the chart from within i1Profiler if you want to extract the greatest quality from that app.

  5. #5
    Junior Member ek3_mon is on a distinguished road
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    Linearization

    Try to set the best Ink Limit your media can hold.

    Use most number of patches available on your RIP to create the possible largest gamut and to obtain best results. Simple as.. the more patches (color shades) you measure (record) the wider your archive becomes.

    Your media and devices are ok. IMO its a photopaper and have this so white pp. It can handle wide gamut outputs or this is just one of its types?

    Same as your printer 4900 10color ink system.

    Maximize it :)

  6. #6
    aaron125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ek3_mon View Post
    Try to set the best Ink Limit your media can hold.

    Use most number of patches available on your RIP to create the possible largest gamut and to obtain best results. Simple as.. the more patches (color shades) you measure (record) the wider your archive becomes.

    Your media and devices are ok. IMO its a photopaper and have this so white pp. It can handle wide gamut outputs or this is just one of its types?

    Same as your printer 4900 10color ink system.

    Maximize it :)
    The number of patches used to create a profile has absolutely nothing to do with the gamut of the printer, nor will increasing the number of patches have any effect whatsoever on the gamut.

    The gamut of a printer is a physical measurement of the range of colours it is able to produce. That is determined by several things, mostly the inks, paper, driver/RIP settings, etc. So no matter if you use 10 or 100 or 1000 or 10,000 patches, there is no way that the patches or the number of patches can have any effect on the gamut.

    As an example, if using PMP5.x, one can use up to about 100,000 patches(!!!). If that were done, you'd probably need to buy an entire complete inkset and hundreds of sheets of paper just to print them all. And imagine then trying to measure all of that!

    Where the number of patches does come into play is with linearity. If a printer is extremely non-linear, sure, increasing the number of patches will create a better and more accurate profile, but on the other hand, if a printer is very very linear, an extremely high quality profile can be created using a quite small number of patches. And it can even work against you if using too many patches as it could create harsh transitions and other problems.

    I have tested this numerous times myself, creating profiles for my 3880 using 288, 918, 1700+, 2500+ and finally 4096 patch targets and the gamut didn't increase one bit. All had identical or almost identical gamut volumes, as shown in ColorThink Pro 3D graph visualisation of the gamut and also the gamut volume number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meatfish
    How can I ensure the widest gamut AND best dmax?
    The only way is to measure your trials using a spectrophotometer. Without using a spectro, it is purely down to guess-work.

    Specifically, for your 4900, go into the driver settings when printing your testcharts and increase the Ink Density by 7%, 10%, 12% and 15% (or more if your paper can handle it), make sure to increase the Drying Time/Print Head Pause (can't remember the exact name of the setting but it should be the next one under the Density setting) number to around 5 or 10, that being 0.5 seconds or 1 second. This allows the ink sufficient time to dry so that you don't get smudges, etc.

    Then, once you've printed the charts with various Density settings, try it using the different paper types of Premium Luster, Premium Gloss and Premium SemiGloss. These 3 are the ones which lay down the most ink, from the Epson driver settings.

    This is something which I have done many times and perform every time I create profiles for a new paper. It is the only way to make sure that one is using the printer, paper and ink's full capabilities.

  7. #7
    Junior Member ek3_mon is on a distinguished road
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    Better gamut mapping

    Quote Originally Posted by aaron125 View Post
    The number of patches used to create a profile has absolutely nothing to do with the gamut of the printer, nor will increasing the number of patches have any effect whatsoever on the gamut.

    The gamut of a printer is a physical measurement of the range of colours it is able to produce. That is determined by several things, mostly the inks, paper, driver/RIP settings, etc. So no matter if you use 10 or 100 or 1000 or 10,000 patches, there is no way that the patches or the number of patches can have any effect on the gamut.

    As an example, if using PMP5.x, one can use up to about 100,000 patches(!!!). If that were done, you'd probably need to buy an entire complete inkset and hundreds of sheets of paper just to print them all. And imagine then trying to measure all of that!

    Where the number of patches does come into play is with linearity. If a printer is extremely non-linear, sure, increasing the number of patches will create a better and more accurate profile, but on the other hand, if a printer is very very linear, an extremely high quality profile can be created using a quite small number of patches. And it can even work against you if using too many patches as it could create harsh transitions and other problems.

    I have tested this numerous times myself, creating profiles for my 3880 using 288, 918, 1700+, 2500+ and finally 4096 patch targets and the gamut didn't increase one bit. All had identical or almost identical gamut volumes, as shown in ColorThink Pro 3D graph visualisation of the gamut and also the gamut volume number.


    The only way is to measure your trials using a spectrophotometer. Without using a spectro, it is purely down to guess-work.

    Specifically, for your 4900, go into the driver settings when printing your testcharts and increase the Ink Density by 7%, 10%, 12% and 15% (or more if your paper can handle it), make sure to increase the Drying Time/Print Head Pause (can't remember the exact name of the setting but it should be the next one under the Density setting) number to around 5 or 10, that being 0.5 seconds or 1 second. This allows the ink sufficient time to dry so that you don't get smudges, etc.

    Then, once you've printed the charts with various Density settings, try it using the different paper types of Premium Luster, Premium Gloss and Premium SemiGloss. These 3 are the ones which lay down the most ink, from the Epson driver settings.

    This is something which I have done many times and perform every time I create profiles for a new paper. It is the only way to make sure that one is using the printer, paper and ink's full capabilities.
    You are absolutely right on this Aaron.

    I wasn't able to express my thoughts clearly on this. I'm referring to the better color gamut mapping creation with those huge number of patches. Not to mention they induce accurate mapping too.

    It'll(gamut) have better algorithms, better black width control, smooth transition of colors, accurate color rendering, better highlights etc etc.

    And yep the SIZE of the gamut will be same.

  8. #8
    tisoypinoy
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    The test chart in this sense doesn't really matter. Some may be marginally better than others but what you need is to build a profile. If you're going off existing profiles they're not being optimized to the paper in mention.

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