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Thread: Optimal number of patches for i1Profiler ?

  1. #1
    Donor Anadrol is on a distinguished road
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    Question Optimal number of patches for i1Profiler ?

    Hi all,

    What is the maximal number of patches that you managed to make a profile with in i1Profiler ?
    I managed with 2945 (that number has a lot of grey patches), at 2946 it removes them.

    If you choose the maximum possible (6000) it crashes while computing the ICC profile !

    And what is an optimal number according to you ?

    Thanks :)

  2. #2
    Junior Member JoeColor is on a distinguished road
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    Google TC1617 target. That's what I'd suggest using to build an ICC profile.

  3. #3
    Moderator Aaron125 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anadrol View Post
    Hi all,

    What is the maximal number of patches that you managed to make a profile with in i1Profiler ?
    I managed with 2945 (that number has a lot of grey patches), at 2946 it removes them.

    If you choose the maximum possible (6000) it crashes while computing the ICC profile !

    And what is an optimal number according to you ?

    Thanks :)
    It isn't possible to answer this without a (decent) bit more info. For example, are you referring to creating a profile for an offset press, an RGB (fine-art and/or large format inkjet) printer, an 'actual' RGB printer such as a Durst Lambda or similar (which prints onto light sensitive photographic media using red, green and blue coloured lasers) and so on.

    Next, one has to know what is most important regarding the wishes of the person creating the profile; do they want the widest gamut and smoothest colour transitions or is utmost colour accuracy more important (such as when creating hard proofs)? These questions need to be answered because they are essentially mutually exclusive. If the highest colour accuracy for proofing is of concern, then for all intents and purposes the more patches the better (within reason, of course) but if printing photographic/fine-art output, too many patches can cause some unwanted colour transitions. In this case, and when using any large format Epson, Canon or HP printer, a patch count of about 1000-3000 patches would be most ideal. This is because most all large format printers sold in the past 3-5 years or so are already very linear in their standard state, out of the box.

    Something else to consider is what type of spectrophotometer the person measuring the profile target will be using. Are they using an i1 Pro/i1 Pro 2 (or similar hand-held, scanning spectro) or are they lucky enough to have access to an automated spectro such as an X-Rite Isis/i1 IO or similar? Quite obviously, the person who has to measure their targets line-by-line will not likely have the patience to be measuring much more than 2-3 A3 sized pages, while someone using an automated spectro can simply feed each page into their automated device and sit back, relax and wait for the device to finish measuring their target pages.

    These are just a few of the necessary options which need to be known before one can give a satisfactory answer to your question regarding number of patches. Also, it isn't just simple grey patches which are numerous in an i1Profiler target of 2945 patches but (almost) completely disappear from a target with a patch count of 2946. To be accurate, the added patches are not grey but rather they are near-neutrals. I have a document which lists the 'magic' or ideal number of patches to include in a target such that the maximum number of near-neutrals will be included. I will try to dig it up and reproduce it here.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeColor View Post
    Google TC1617 target. That's what I'd suggest using to build an ICC profile.
    I disagree with your blanket statement that one should always use the IT8.7/4 target which contains 1617 patches. This target is specifically for use with CMYK printers. It's actually nearly useless for someone printing fine-art (native RGB) images using an RGB printer. Not to mention that it's widely accepted that the i1Profiler target generation algorithms and profile creation routines work best with i1Profiler's own target patch selection. The IT8.7/4 target is nearly a decade old now (maybe even older, I can't really be bothered checking when this industry standard target was created) and since it was created, there have been huge advances in the quality of the high-end/large format printers, printing media and profile creation applications. For these and several other reasons, it's most advisable to create a profile target from within i1Profiler and to choose the number of patches using some or all of the criteria I've mentioned above.

    Hopefully this will be of some assistance.

  4. #4
    Junior Member angust is on a distinguished road
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    for a good proofer, i believe 3000 is a good number!

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