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Thread: No Color Management option is missing in Photoshop CS5

  1. #31
    Rav
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    hero. ta

    Have you seen this?

    http://www.colourcollective.co.uk/uk/category/support/

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  3. #32
    Rav
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    Other Print Dialogue Options?

    So when you perform a null transform in Photoshop, what are all the settings in the print dialogue box supposed to be? I guess you use relative colorimetric rendering intent. What about 'Black Point Compensation' - select or not?

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  5. #33
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rav View Post
    So when you perform a null transform in Photoshop, what are all the settings in the print dialogue box supposed to be? I guess you use relative colorimetric rendering intent. What about 'Black Point Compensation' - select or not?
    in theory, it doesn't matter what you choose,
    because input and output color space are same
    but you can always count on sw bug
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  6. #34
    Junior Member chinamonk is on a distinguished road
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    Personally think that the PHOTOSHOP color management is based on the color settings, may not provide no color management based on RGB output, sRGB color space. If your file itself does not have ICC settings, the PHOTOSHOP will default to set the color of the color space. For example the system default is sRGB, closing the printer output TC 918 file, the result of a measurement is based on the sRGB ICC, if the default ADOBE RGB, closing the printer output TC 918 file, measurement results are based on the ADBOE RGB ICC.

  7. #35
    aaron125
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    It all works exactly as expected if your settings are correct. If using the Ps default colour management settings, then what you describe could possibly occur. But anyone contributing to this thread is certainly not a beginner, so should most definitely not be using the Ps default settings. Not unless they want unexpected or detrimental changes to occur in their workflow/files.

    I just tested by opening TC918 RGB untagged printer profile chart into Ps CS 5.1 x64 and exactly as I have always had happen since Ps 7, all those years ago, the file shows up as "Untagged RGB (8bpc)" in the lower left corner. I can save as, open the new file and it too is untagged. Nothing unusual happening there, No Color Management still 100% possible and working perfectly for printing profile charts in Ps CS 5.x.

    Who needs those stupid/annoying popups alerting us that whatever file we just opened has a different profile than that which we have selected to be our RGB Working Space profile? Certainly not me. I always check every single file I work on so I know exactly what colour space it is in. If I need to assign or convert to some other profile, then ok, I will, but only if needed. Or I can simply just open the file and print it, without any colour management occuring.

    In each and every program I use, I go through every single option and preference setting available, to both make sure everything behaves as I want or need it to and also to educate myself as to exactly what the program is capable of doing or changing.


    RAV:
    You asked about what RI to use when printing through a null transform and correctly suggested relative but were unsure about BPC and if it should be checked or not. I don't think it actually matters what RI is used, but I always have set it to relative with BPC unchecked. If Bruce Fraser is correct, and I don't have any reason to doubt his authority, no conversion is actually taking place, so even if using Saturation RI, I'm guessing everything should still turn out as expected. If I had an i1IO or Isis or some form of automated spectro, I'd do the printing and measurements myself, using different RI with a null transform, just to settle my own curiosity. But alas, I only have an i1, no automation for me, so I can't be bothered to test when I know it works perfectly as is. But I'm still curious.

  8. #36
    aaron125
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    Not a bug at all

    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    in theory, it doesn't matter what you choose,
    because input and output color space are same
    but you can always count on sw bug
    A null transform is not at all a bug from any software. It is a specific part of all ICC compliant CMS. Nothing to do with Ps or any profiling program misbehaving. When source and destination profiles are identical, the CMS does not perform any conversion.

  9. #37
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron125 View Post
    A null transform is not at all a bug from any software. It is a specific part of all ICC compliant CMS. Nothing to do with Ps or any profiling program misbehaving. When source and destination profiles are identical, the CMS does not perform any conversion.
    imagine that you chose adobe rgb for input
    and chose adobe rgb for output,
    and you found that somehow software use srgb for output
    is it bug or what?
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  10. #38
    Nemesis
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    It will mean you are not informed very well. Not a bug. You can miss one time but when you find out as you said software uses sRGB for output of course you will make such conversion that will match the output itself and create null transform.

    Anyway Adobe Color Printer Utility won't fail. And yes, it is good only for TIFF files because as you know all targets are in TIFF format.

  11. #39
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis View Post
    It will mean you are not informed very well. Not a bug. You can miss one time but when you find out as you said software uses sRGB for output of course you will make such conversion that will match the output itself and create null transform.

    Anyway Adobe Color Printer Utility won't fail. And yes, it is good only for TIFF files because as you know all targets are in TIFF format.
    lets try to make color setup in corel and you will see
    you make adobe rgb default color space
    quit corel
    start again and you will find that srgb is again default color space
    feature?

    You can miss one time but when you find out as you said software uses sRGB for output of course you will make such conversion that will match the output itself and create null transform.
    pleas explain this. i haven't idea what you talking about
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  12. #40
    Nemesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    lets try to make color setup in corel and you will see
    you make adobe rgb default color space
    quit corel
    start again and you will find that srgb is again default color space
    feature?
    Without disrespect do you really work on color critical files in Corel?! Answering this will give you simultaneously answer to yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    pleas explain this. i haven't idea what you talking about
    What I meant is that you can make error one time and after that do procedure for null transform and all should go well (sorry except corel ).

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  14. #41
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    @nemesis
    about corel
    you like to say that adobe sw are without flaws?
    corel is only example how one sw bug can make mess
    even in adobe cs4 black point compensation sometime works sometimes not
    "i am proffesional, i use adobe cs" sound rude and/or silly
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  15. #42
    Nemesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    @nemesis
    about corel
    you like to say that adobe sw are without flaws?
    No. You implied that I have meant on that which is not true of course. Sure they have flaws too.

    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    corel is only example how one sw bug can make mess
    True. Which is why I advise staying away from it when you are doing color critical work.

    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    even in adobe cs4 black point compensation sometime works sometimes not
    Problem you are addressing to it in version CS5 and CS5.5 does not exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    "i am proffesional, i use adobe cs" sound rude and/or silly
    Again you implied on that too. I no way I have mentioned Adobe CS line of products. I can understand everyone using what suites them best. Since this is a print forum I will stick to that side and leaving artistic aspect on side. So if you are in print industry wouldn't be logical for you to use products of company who invented PDF as format? So under one roof you will have complete control in creation and output of the files for the print. But this is just me, everyone works as suites them best.

  16. #43
    Junior Member mfy2010 is on a distinguished road
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    This is a bad news, and no color management is one of characters for ps.

  17. #44
    Nemesis
    Guest
    ^
    Not a big deal. John Nack on his blog posted a reasons why abandoning the No Color Management option in Print dialog. Take a look here
    Code:
    Only the registered members can see the download links/content. pleaseĀ Register to gain full access.
    Now you have Adobe Color Printer Utility that does the same job.
    Last edited by super silja; 09-21-2011 at 04:57 AM.

  18. #45
    aaron125
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    There is and never has been any problem caused by this.

    The only way that the null transform can not work correctly and have some wierd sRGB/working space profile is if THE USER'S settings are INCORRECT.

    I explicity detailed exactly which settings cause this to happen, and frankly, if someone is the type of user who makes a setting in Ps for Ps to automate the application of a profile and then that user FORGETS what they set, they deserve to get screwed up results.

    Why would someone want Ps to apply or convert a profile, without even popping up a dialogue box? Coz if the box popped up, would anyone ever answer "Yes Please, convert my untagged profile target, PLEASE"? That's what you are doing if you have the settings on auto-convert and no popup message.

    Better to set one's own settings according to what one ACTUALLY needs. Strange concept, hey? Do that, and like me, you will never have had even a single profile turn out strange or unexpected, because you the user will actually control everything Ps does, not Ps controlling you.

    This isn't rocket science folks, there are only 3 settings there!

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