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Thread: Help in Proof and Press result visually not match

  1. #1
    Junior Member rooftop is on a distinguished road
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    Help in Proof and Press result visually not match

    Hi there,

    I have a question regarding Colormanagement.

    My situation:
    1. I use GMG Colorproof and create a proofing that according to Fogra 39 and measured the Mediawedge with GMG Proof Control my proof is passed.
    2. I optimized my offset press (with 175 lpi) according to the ISO 12647-2. My Inks are ISO 2846-1, the CtP are compensated and the dot gain result are within tolerance.
    3. Measured the Mediawedge with UPPCT, only the paper white that failed, the rest are passed to the ISO 12647-2
    4. I can match under the D50 condition during production but after that under different light condition they are visually not match. The press result lost the red color cast.

    any advise??

  2. #2
    aaron125
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    When you state that proof & press do not match, how exactly are you proofing - printed hard proof (if so, what media & printer are you using) or soft proof on screen (if on screen, what monitor are you using & what options in photoshop view proof are you using)?

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  4. #3
    Junior Member rooftop is on a distinguished road
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    Thanks for the reply,

    My proof is a hard proof. I am using Epson 9880 with GMG Colorproof. My media is Sihl Semigloss paper 250 gsm.

    The red color is visually decrease when view under non D50 light.

    Any advise??

  5. #4
    PRC Member ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard is a glorious beacon of light ColorWizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rooftop View Post
    The red color is visually decrease when view under non D50 light.
    Any advise??
    There is no way to achieve agreement between proof and print if you will not use a light source used to build icc profile of the print process. In must cases that is D50.
    If you have to use non D50 light, you have to build icc profile of the print process using this light source. To do it, you have to have spectral measurements of the print process, spectral data of non D50 light source and software like ProfileMaker, that is have such possibility.
    After that, you can use this icc profile to make proof and to compare it with print sample under the "non D50" light.

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  7. #5
    aaron125
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    So if I understand correctly, when viewing your printed hard proof under non-D50 light source the red tones are less saturated/change hue or change colour - is that correct?

    I agree totally with ColorWizard in that what you are experiencing is metameric failure - when you create a profile, it by default will be created for viewing under D50 illumination & if you change the illuminant, you are physically changing the actual proof. One must remember that without light a print cannot be viewed & every colour we perceive is made up of 3 parts, these being: the viewer (a person), the item being viewed & the light source. Without any 1 of these 3 items, the image or object cannot be viewed.

    That is why your image is changing in the red tones when viewed under non-D50 light, because your profile was made specifically for D50 illuminant. With ProfileMaker Pro 5.x the light source is able to be changed if the patch measurements were made with spectral enabled in the patch reading options. With an i1Pro & i1Share (free app from X-Rite/Gretag), the actual non-D50 light source you speak of can be measured & saved as a CXF file which can be used when creating the profile so that the hard proof will appear correct in your specific non-D50 light source, or any light source you choose, as long as it has been measured & a CXF file created.

    One excellent example of the benefit of the above-mentioned ability of ProfileMaker Pro 5.x to create profiles specifically for any light source the user wishes is if someone had an upcoming gallery exhibition, they could go to the gallery & take their i1Pro & measure the actual lights the gallery uses to illuminate the images on their wall. Once the gallery's lights have been measured, a profile would be created specifically for this light source & then all of one's images printed for this particular gallery exhibition would look correct & as if viewed under D50 light because the gallery lighting has been taken into account when creating the profile.

    I hope that helps you, let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

    Just wondering, what hardware are you using to read the patches?

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  9. #6
    Banned servitz is on a distinguished road
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    Of course, colors will be different with different colour temperature (D50, D65, D70 etc.)!
    You must take as a constant your print proof conditions!

  10. #7
    pso
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    Lighting is one of element that anyone in our industry will try to ignore or last priority. Having a ISO 3664 is very important.

    Unless you start to build a D65 or anything lighting with a spectral data and create a new LAB values.

    Other words, you are trying to find the lighting that you are viewing on, measure it and convert this 39L data to LAB with your lighting condition, (Fogra, do not publish the 39L in spectral data, sorry, either you measure the print of 39L with MeasureTools) use your GMG to create this proof, and view back, hope you will get it.

    But I never hear anyone doing this. :-(, sorry.
    Let's me know if work.

    Then we will start to build profile of 39L in D50, D65 and other.

  11. #8
    Junior Member rooftop is on a distinguished road
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    Thank you all for the replies.

    I do believe that the D50 is the standard viewing condition.

    The hard part is that when the printed result delivered to the print buyer, and they viewing condition is not always D50 (let say in their office environment) then they will see that the print result color is not the way they want.

    When talking with people with the same "language" is ok coz we know this metameric issue. Sometime it hard to argue with the print buyer since they are the one who pay, and they are not too technical about this so the "language" is different.

    Other thing for my problem is that I am looking into the ink. It looks like the ink was ok for solid but for halftone the delta E are getting bigger.

    So it may be the ink problem...

  12. #9
    Junior Member michel is on a distinguished road
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    paper

    try changing your paper to epson's fogra certified. I had good results with it.
    benefit - this way you will have to re-profile your system...

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