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Thread: Creating Abstract Profiles with ArgyllCMS

  1. #31
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    Hello,

    yes, I've tried to open the same lists, created by ColorThinkPro and the same resaved with ColorLab, but they have completely different numbers inside...
    I did not really understand what you mean when you say:
    "But you can do the convertion to ASCII TXT measurements (step 5 in your method) by formatting values in Excel or Notepad."
    About Capture (Phase 1), yes, there is no Apple's Capture as far as I know...
    What I wanted to say is that I suppose that Capture uses some abstract profiles that are not part of Capture but are the s that everybody who uses Mac OSX can find installed in the system.
    In Capture you could find these profiles under "ICC Profile" --> "Effects"
    I don't know why the profiles I create are not recognized...

    Anyway I am going crazy because the profiles I am creating with these procedure are really unprecised and I can't find a solution.
    Even if use very big charts, at the end, when I apply the profile to the original image I obtain a color correction that is different from the I've originally applied for the creating of the profile...
    If anyboday as an idea... :-)

    Thank you very much!

  2. #32
    Junior Member AlexG is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ale_Paris View Post
    What I wanted to say is that I suppose that Capture uses some abstract profiles that are not part of Capture but are the s that everybody who uses Mac OSX can find installed in the system.
    In Capture you could find these profiles under "ICC Profile" --> "Effects"
    I don't know why the profiles I create are not recognized...
    Hello!
    I took a look on Effects of Phase Capture .

    First of all - there is no magic here, it's NOT an abstract profiles! It's regular Input Profile class like sRGB.icc, Adobe1998.icc etc!

    You can check it with any ICC profile viewer, lets say with SampleICC Profile Dump utility:
    http://www.color.org/profdump.xalter

    So you can put these profiles to common system ICC profile folder (C:\WINDOWS\system32\spool\drivers\color) and you can apply it with ANY icc-aware application, like Photoshop (via assign profile).

    Also Capture recognize input profiles as Effects by the name.
    Here is the commom Effect's name: "Phase Effects - *****.icm", where ***** is the desirable effect name.

    So if you want to make your personal effect, then you need just to create RGB to Lab table, create regular input icc profile and to give it the correct name.

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  4. #33
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    So I create a simple input camera profile, let's say with Profile Maker and Profile Editor and I assign that name...
    Sorry for the mistake!

    So, at the end, Capture doesn't recognize abstract profiles...right?

    When I render the image in capture "should" I use a different, standard, color space like AdobeRGB or ProPhoto, right (to have a more clean process later on)?
    In that case, the conversion would be:
    "Input_Camera_Profile" --> PCS --> "Standard_Color_Space", right?
    Nothing else happens in the meantime...
    Obviosly, depending on the rendering intent, the conversion to the PCS will have a different result...

    Thank you very much!


    Ale

  5. #34
    Junior Member AlexG is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ale_Paris View Post
    So, at the end, Capture doesn't recognize abstract profiles...right?
    Seems like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ale_Paris View Post
    When I render the image in capture "should" I use a different, standard, color space like AdobeRGB or ProPhoto, right (to have a more clean process later on)?
    In that case, the conversion would be:
    "Input_Camera_Profile" --> PCS --> "Standard_Color_Space", right?
    Yes, I think it's the correct way.

    Actually, I don't work with Capture 1 and I don't understand it's color management policy clearly. For me it's very unlogical.
    So I would recommend you to compare it with the same convertion in Photoshop, because it has very clear and logically correct color management system.

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  7. #35
    Donor Gargoyle will become famous soon enough
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    [QUOTE=Ale_Paris;69722]I am also experimenting with ColorThinkPro and the "Extract Unique Color Values" function.

    In this way (but also using ColorLab), thing I don't understand is how to get the "correct numbers", I mean, the s I get using scanin -c command in Argyll.
    Once again I am not an expert so please excuse me if I say something stupid or obvious...

    In ColorThinkPro, after having created the list, I see that there are some options:
    1) when saving this panel appears --> [URL="http://postimage.org/image/bt0ufpprt/"]http://postimage.org/image/bt0ufpprt/[/URL]
    what should I check? (the image show the standard setting)

    Hi, needed to catch up. What did you choose?


    2) before saving I can access a "color setup" panel --> [URL="http://postimage.org/image/gb3037ad3/"]http://postimage.org/image/gb3037ad3/[/URL]
    once again, what should I select?

    Thank you very much for your help!


    Ale

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  9. #36
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    Hey,

    doing the same thing in photoshop leads to different results.
    I am still experimenting BUT: opening a raw image, converting it into TIFF with photoshop (all parameters set to 0), and assigning the profiles, present a different result.
    I think it depends on the way photoshop rendere the original raw image compared to what capture does as the programs have different engines...

    Another thing is that Capture enables you to select an ICC profile for the camera and export the resulting TIFF already converted into a standard color space (Adobe, ProPhoto, etc...) while photoshop only lets you export the resulting TIFF image with a small bunch of standard profiles (5 or 6, have to check...).
    On the other hand photoshop lets you use the DNG profiles that you can't use in Capture , but this is an unuseful feature for what I am trying to do.

    Gargoyle...as I did not know the meaning I've left the standard paramenters in all the windows... :-)
    But if you have some suggestions...

    Thank you very much!
    Last edited by Ale_Paris; 03-13-2013 at 07:01 AM.

  10. #37
    Donor Gargoyle will become famous soon enough
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    Hi ale_paris, I have some questions on your steps below which I am going to put them in blue and hoping to get clarified.


    Here is the full method:
    1) Prepare an image in Argyll CMS with the command "timage".
    It has to be fairly small otherwise the other programs will go crazy. I suggest to leave the basic parameters and to use the -p option (my value is 2).

    so this is an image of color gradients and each gradient is assigned with a lightness level and since the value is 2 therefore 4 gradients?

    2) Import the image in ColorThinkPro and extract the unique color values, save the list.

    How did you extract the color values? Is this by using the "select taget values to create a list" and if so how many x and y patches? Also after color values extracted from the image how was the list exported? What I mean is what color values are in the list? Are they RGB values only, Lab values only or both?

    3) Open the list with Color Lab, add the patches to make it a rectangular chart and export as TIFF (from now on let's call this file "matrix").

    After confirming the above steps perhaps it is easier to understand the steps below.

    4) Make a copy of matrix, open it in Photoshop and make all the color corrections you want, save as TIFF (from now on let's call this file matrix-modified)
    5) Import matrix modified and matrix in ColorThinkPro and "Convert all color to list". Do not select "Extract unique color values" otherwise probably you will get list with different number of colors and it doesn't work.
    6) Save the list and import them in ColorLab. Export the list as *.txt files.
    7) Convert the *.txt file into *.ti3 file with the command "txt2ti3" in Argyll CMS.
    8) Use refine and these *.ti3 file to generate your abstract profile!


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  12. #38
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    Hello Gargoyle!

    So, first question...
    At the beginning, as I wrote, I was experimenti with a value "-2", which, as you pointed out, generates a 4 matrix.
    Then, as I was experimenting a lot for creating abstract profiles that comprehend selective color color corrections (sorry for the repetition but I wouldn't know how else could I say...), I start generating tables with 100 gradients (obviously with different lightness levels).
    If you want to try, to save your time, go directly for an image 217px X 217px with a value of "-10". It will generate an image that, if you extract all the single color with color think, will generate the biggest list ColorLab can handle.

    Second question:
    I think it's only L*a*b* colors with a rounding.

    Anyway I attach an image where you can see the exact image I generated with "timage" and a portion of the list I get when selecting "extract unique color values".
    [URL="http://postimage.org/image/kuivif1ad/"]http://postimage.org/image/kuivif1ad/[/URL]


    Thank you very much for your help!


    Ale

  13. #39
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    No new ideas...?

  14. #40
    Donor Gargoyle will become famous soon enough
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    Hi Ale_Paris,

    Sorry, for the delay. I'd just reformated my computer. Hope you can provide more feedback below. Sorry, but there are still guessworks from Step 3 and onward that I have to figure with the ColorLab utility which I haven't tried using yet.

    Here is the full method:
    1) Prepare an image in Argyll CMS with the command "timage".
    It has to be fairly small otherwise the other programs will go crazy. I suggest to leave the basic parameters and to use the -p option (my value is 2).
    2) Import the image in ColorThinkPro and extract the unique color values, save the list.

    Thanks for the screenshot and its now clear what the color parameters are in the text file


    3) Open the list with Color Lab, add the patches to make it a rectangular chart and export as TIFF (from now on let's call this file "matrix").

    So what's the color space this exported TIFF file from ColorLab? e.g. Lab, RGB...?


    4) Make a copy of matrix, open it in Photoshop and make all the color corrections you want, save as TIFF (from now on let's call this file matrix-modified)

    Edited and save them back under the same color space as above?

    5) Import matrix modified and matrix in ColorThinkPro and "Convert all color to list". Do not select "Extract unique color values" otherwise probably you will get list with different number of colors and it doesn't work.
    6) Save the list and import them in ColorLab. Export the list as *.txt files.

    Can you copy and paste the contents of these list both before and after exporting to ColorLab? Need to know again the color parameters that is feeding to the the Argyll Refine tool.


    7) Convert the *.txt file into *.ti3 file with the command "txt2ti3" in Argyll CMS.

    Could you copy and paste the command line parameters?

    8) Use refine and these *.ti3 file to generate your abstract profile!

    Perhaps we can still simplify the steps or improve the quality of the generated abstract profile after knowing the above.






    Thank you very much guys, I would have never d it without you!
    Last edited by Gargoyle; 03-27-2013 at 07:47 PM.

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  16. #41
    Member Ale_Paris is on a distinguished road
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    Hello Gargoyle,

    thank you very much for your help!

    So...
    When I export as Tiff from ColorLab it automatically saves it in LAB 8bit.
    After making the color correction in PS I save in LAB 8bit (no, layers, compression...whatsoever).
    When I use the "txt2ti3" command I don't use any options: just "txt2ti3 inputfile.txt outputfile".

    For clarity I have prepare a Zip folder that contains all the files from the beginning to the end of the process. So that you can have access to the very same files that I am using and generating. Everything should be self explaining. You can download it here: [URL="http://dfiles.eu/files/nw8esg19m"]http://dfiles.eu/files/nw8esg19m[/URL]

    Thank you very much for your help and Happy Easter!

  17. #42
    Donor Gargoyle will become famous soon enough
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    Hi Ale_Paris, sorry for the late reply. Trying to give my opinion here. Since you are correcting colors for your particular camera IMO it will make more sense to create abstract color correction profile from image scenes taken directly with your camera. You may convert these scenes to Lab color space and proceed with the steps you outlined in your previous post.

    Thank you too for the steps you have outlined.

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