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Thread: Complete profiling Tool

  1. #16
    mmp
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    Quote Originally Posted by hung_ks View Post
    By your opnions : measure color by X-Rite DTP41 or X-Rite 530 better?
    I use i1 pro

  2. #17
    Donor Neowolf is on a distinguished road
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    Question Heidelberg Color Toolbox

    I install it and i think it have all i need the problem is how i use it? I read the manual but no have a workflow explanation. only have the descriptions and the functions of the different parts.
    any one work with toolbox i have too much questions.
    Thanks and sorry my english.
    Last edited by Neowolf; 05-20-2011 at 03:33 AM.

  3. #18
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neowolf View Post
    Hi all,
    I search for a program can create a ICC Profiles and have this functions like the color profile wizard in Flexi Sign 8.5.
    Read density and chroma
    Ink Limit (print patch and adjust)
    Linearization (print and Read Patches)
    Multi-ink Limits (print patch and adjust)
    Gray Balance (print and Read Patches)
    Characterization (print and Read Patches)
    ICC generation (compatible with the all versions)

    Is this possible in one tool?

    Thanks!!!
    Simply answer is it' not possible
    All things you mention except icc profiling should be done in rip. Without proper training it will take some time ... After few years you will be expirienced with all kind rips and you will see what kind of crap is on the market.
    For Icc generation you can take it pm5 or I1 publish or Hd color tools or Monaco
    - litographer sais something about hammer :)

  4. #19
    Junior Member fjlfpsup is on a distinguished road
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    Onyx

    I think Onyx ProductionHouse X10 can do all

  5. #20
    Junior Member tedlsng is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjlfpsup View Post
    I think Onyx ProductionHouse X10 can do all
    Would you please tell more details on Onyx ProductionHouse X10?

  6. #21
    aaron125
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    EFI XF 4.5 can perform all tasks you've asked about

    Quote Originally Posted by super silja View Post
    Simply answer is it' not possible
    All things you mention except icc profiling should be done in rip. Without proper training it will take some time ... After few years you will be expirienced with all kind rips and you will see what kind of crap is on the market.
    For Icc generation you can take it pm5 or I1 publish or Hd color tools or Monaco
    - litographer sais something about hammer :)
    I wouldn't say it's impossible, in fact I know that it definitely is possible to complete all of your requested steps using EFI XF 4.5 - each & every one of the tasks you've listed can be performed in XF 4.5 as long as you make sure to use the halftone (HT) driver for your printer & in the linearization step be sure to select CMYKcmkk (or something similar) & NOT just CMYK. By selecting the extended CMYKcmkk option, you are able to control all inks, limits, start/end/crossover points, light-full tone ink mixing, etc.

    Allthough, as silja mentions, you do need a decent understanding of the processes & ICC profiling in general or you will have many headaches as there are so many options & you really need to know why one option would be better than another, instead of just using defaults or trying to learn as you go.

    Good luck!

  7. #22
    Junior Member kanonpri is on a distinguished road
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    You definitely need a RIP.

    A RIP can do all the things you request and even beyond that. A normal profiling package can not control ink limit and black ink or dot, X-Rite's free ColorPort allows for linearized profiling although it's not necessary for RGB profiling workflows.

  8. #23
    dou
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    This software is most interesting for the press work from home

  9. #24
    aaron125
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanonpri View Post
    A RIP can do all the things you request and even beyond that. A normal profiling package can not control ink limit and black ink or dot, X-Rite's free ColorPort allows for linearized profiling although it's not necessary for RGB profiling workflows.
    Unless something has recently changed (which, since you mentioned ColorPort is still free, I doubt anything major has), ColorPort has no profile creation abilities, linearized or not. As it's name suggests, the app is purely a portal for getting colour [measurement] data into the computer, not profie creation.

    Also, RGB output devices definitely do need linearization, its just that the vast majority of RGB output devices aren't actually RGB devices at all. The Mac & Windows OS drivers cannot process CMYK data only RGB (actually, it's the way both OS work, not the driver itself that causes this to happen), but as we all know, the inks in inkjet printers are CMYK, not RGB. Therefor, it isn't really possible (certainly not simple & easy the way it is to linearize a CMYK device) to linearize a printer that has RGB input but CMYK output because you can't measure (for example) if I give the printer a 10% input, do I get a 10% output because it won't be 10% of anything RGB, rather some mix of CMYK inks.

    Now, think of a laser photographic printer, such as Durst Lambda or similar - they definitely need to be linearized because now giving a 10% input can be measured & correlated with what the printer is outputting onto the substrate.

    Just thought I'd clear that up so you don't get confused.

  10. #25
    aaron125
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    @dhtdesign
    What are those links you've pasted into your post supposed to be for? Do you realise that they are completely unuseable in the form you've copy/pasted them in because some forums will automatically change the link such that one has to right-click & select 'copy shortcut' to get the entire link/actual working, useable URL. What you have pasted in is the alias which, as can be seen by the dots (....) is missing quite a bit of whatever it's supposed to be.

    What proggy are the links meant to be for anyway?

  11. Your ad here

  12. #26
    Member PanozJani is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neowolf View Post
    Is a profiling service. I go to the client with my laptop and my I1 pro UV and profile the client program can be Wasatch , Flexi , ect... and profile the client printer.
    Sorry for the bad news, but you'll have to make the ink limits and linearization on the RIP at your client, since they are kept in a separate file (e.g. EFI XF: media.epl) and you can't avoid that step. Although in i1Profiler you could limit the total ink, and you can linearize before profiling - you can't limit the inks of individual channels, and different papers need different settings (not to mention the heaters, screening etc.).

    And sell your i1 UVcut and buy one without it. (trust me, we have both type, and we are on this market for 10 years)

  13. #27
    Junior Member alex_prihodko will become famous soon enough alex_prihodko's Avatar
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    I think Profile Maker 5.1 and Agfa Apogee Color for best result.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to alex_prihodko For This Useful Post:

  15. #28
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron125 View Post
    I wouldn't say it's impossible, in fact I know that it definitely is possible to complete all of your requested steps using EFI XF 4.5 - each & every one of the tasks you've listed can be performed in XF 4.5 as long as you make sure to use the halftone (HT) driver for your printer & in the linearization step be sure to select CMYKcmkk (or something similar) & NOT just CMYK. By selecting the extended CMYKcmkk option, you are able to control all inks, limits, start/end/crossover points, light-full tone ink mixing, etc.

    Allthough, as silja mentions, you do need a decent understanding of the processes & ICC profiling in general or you will have many headaches as there are so many options & you really need to know why one option would be better than another, instead of just using defaults or trying to learn as you go.

    Good luck!
    actualy EFI 4.5 is RIP!
    good luck

  16. #29
    aaron125
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    XF is a complete profiling tool as well as being a RIP

    You are correct Sir, XF is indeed a RIP!
    It is also a "Complete profiling tool", just as was asked for in the original query for this thread. It will perform all stated objectives, which no 'ordinary' profile creation software is able to do.

    How can all of the stated objectives be accomplished without using a RIP? I don't know of any other way all of them can be performed.

    Also, a RIP program was actually mentioned in the opening post, FlexiSign 8.5. So Neowolf already knew a RIP would be needed to satisfy his objectives.

    But you are correct about XF being a RIP, thanks for pointing that out.

  17. #30
    Moderator super silja will become famous soon enough super silja's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by aaron125 View Post
    You are correct Sir, XF is indeed a RIP!
    It is also a "Complete profiling tool", just as was asked for in the original query for this thread. It will perform all stated objectives, which no 'ordinary' profile creation software is able to do.

    How can all of the stated objectives be accomplished without using a RIP? I don't know of any other way all of them can be performed.

    Also, a RIP program was actually mentioned in the opening post, FlexiSign 8.5. So Neowolf already knew a RIP would be needed to satisfy his objectives.

    But you are correct about XF being a RIP, thanks for pointing that out.
    with respect to your post
    maybe me or maybe you miss something
    Quote Originally Posted by neowulf
    I search for a program can create a ICC Profiles and have this functions like the color profile wizard in Flexi Sign 8.5.
    he don't need RIP! he need profiling sw
    what i say that what he mention is beyond of scope of icc profiling tool
    Quote Originally Posted by neowulf
    Read density and chroma
    Ink Limit (print patch and adjust)
    Linearization (print and Read Patches)
    Multi-ink Limits (print patch and adjust)
    Gray Balance (print and Read Patches)
    Characterization (print and Read Patches)
    ICC generation (compatible with the all versions)

    Is this possible in one tool?
    and what i say is
    Quote Originally Posted by super silja
    All things you mention except icc profiling should be done in rip.
    i did not found that he asks for rip. where you found in his post that he asks for rip?
    and what he say
    Quote Originally Posted by neowulf
    Is a profiling service. I go to the client with my laptop and my I1 pro UV and profile the client program can be Wasatch , Flexi , ect... and profile the client printer
    efi is in my opinion one of best proofing/large format/wide format printing solution. it's powerful, flexible ...
    but .... you miss point


    according EFI, you're welcome
    @ JANI
    And sell your i1 UVcut and buy one without it. (trust me, we have both type, and we are on this market for 10 years)
    Depending of quantity of OBA and profiling solution (SW) , sometime UV Cut feature is welcome
    i prefer measurement without UV, but for production.... i think ( maybe i am wrong)... it's not necessary to be "100% color purist"
    i like to hear from experienced person what kind or problem you have with UV cut devices?
    ----------------------
    knowledge is power!
    power to be your best!
    Last edited by super silja; 08-02-2011 at 01:42 PM.

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