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Thread: On the subject of post count restrictions...

  1. #16
    Banned Anna-Karenina is an unknown quantity at this point
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    I agree about the clicking of the "Thanks" button or something else to that extent. I'm new and would like to have informative and engaging convos but if I'm looking for something that requires a bunch of posts, it only encourages spamming boards.

  2. #17
    Moderator swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute
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    I always hear the same story...

    That is because Printroot is so well referenced on Google that i discovered it, as most of the members here. That forum is public. The only way to hide stuff is not by scribbling the titles of the posts with symbols, spaces or dashes, but to turn this forum to a private one. Which is surely not what you want.

    As a public forum, we can't have the best of both worlds : accuracy AND discretion.


    About the posts restriction, its aim is precisely to prevent non-registered members to see download links, which is a manner to offset the publicity of the forum.

    Now, at first, we've all started with 0 posts, including me. Now that i'm moderating i see this differently.

    There is mainly two philosophies about new members :

    1) i would say that most of the new members are posting 2-3 empty messages and such spam to get the limits off. Some are spamming with bullshits and messages of thanks everywhere in a short time. You do not necessarily see it because they get banned quickly. But it is, each day, an huge part of the moderation work here, editing, deleting, warning, banning.

    2) those who want, that's understandable, get the limits off BUT contribute, participate and share. That was my case, and my philosophy, on the internets and irl.

    Yeah, it requires to learn a bit, to read some rules, to spend some time to search and find stuff, pictures, links and so on. Yes, it takes some efforts to give to others.

    Well, so, that is not a definition of... sharing ? Which is precisely the aim of this forum ;)

    Swit.
    Last edited by swit; 11-29-2013 at 04:41 PM.

  3. #18
    PRC Member spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all spider is a name known to all
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    Quote Originally Posted by swit View Post
    I always hear the same story...



    1) i would say that most of the new members are posting 2-3 empty messages and such spam to get the limits off. Some are spamming with bullshits and messages of thanks everywhere in a short time. You do not necessarily see it because they get banned quickly. But it is, each day, an huge part of the moderation work here, editing, deleting, warning, banning.



    Swit.
    a much more effective way to avoid spamming is to review the posts of new members BEFORE they go public to the forum threads. lots of other boards do it this way and you have much less efforts to browse all new posts and sort out the spam afterwards.

    this way doesnt encourage new members to flood the board with useless posts since the post count starts after succesful review by a moderator and not immediately.

    just my 2 cents.

  4. #19
    ink
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    Quote Originally Posted by swit View Post
    I always hear the same story...

    That is because Printroot is so well referenced on Google that i discovered it, as most of the members here. That forum is public. The only way to hide stuff is not by scribbling the titles of the posts with symbols, spaces or dashes, but to turn this forum to a private one. Which is surely not what you want.

    As a public forum, we can't have the best of both worlds : accuracy AND discretion.
    Titles of posts should be at the discretion of the poster. We are a free world THAT DOES NOT believe in censorship and requiring people to conform to how we want things to be. Some of us just joined this forum recently and they suddenly impose new rules on old members just because they suddenly rose to become moderators. It has come to my attention after receiving feedback on my email. Arbitrary banning should be channeled to an arbitration section where other members could vote if an issue is valid and banning is warranted for that member. To give just one admin that much power is unhealthy in any kind of social system. That's precisely WHY we opted for democracy, because we have come to understand that absolute power corrupts absolutely. Humans are fallible and our tempers and impatience can result into unwise arbitrary decisions.

    We could "tag" each post accurately at the tag section below the article so posts could be searched properly by the internal index, as that feature is open to everybody, but it is bordering on obsessive-compulsiveness to insist certain formats for Post Titling. That should be voluntary in nature and not compulsory. We are not a formal board adjudicating dissertations.

    If we insist HOW they should title their posts, legally, printroot can be sued for DMCA violations (and other digital media laws) because it would now appear that the forum/system has maximum control over what its members post. It cannot claim that it is simply a message board that caters to free flow of communication (which is a defense of most forums concerning copyright issues). The theory behind this "publisher" liability is that a publisher has the knowledge, opportunity, and ability to exercise editorial control over the content of its publications. Immunity however was granted under the Immunity for Online Publishers Under the Communications Decency Act for online publishers like forums who could show that they have very little control over what their members post.

    Ethical guidelines are good. Members are encouraged to abide by those if they can. But if we set rules that constitute control over content, the site loses immunity from suit. And we are all in danger of losing a valuable forum we have come to love.
    Last edited by ink; 11-30-2013 at 02:16 AM.

  5. #20
    Moderator swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute
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    So we take a risk to "lose the forum that we all love" :

    1) for my sake
    2) because there are some new simple rules to follow.

    Lol.

    You are talking as this forum was kind an extension of the democracy. But this is not a democracy. This is a kingdom. A kingdom which belongs to the administrator and owner. As the owner, he may decree whathever he wants, whathever he likes.

    In this case, he has decreed two things recently :

    1) as you're especially talking of me in your message : at my request, to appoint me as a moderator (not forgetting morpheo1967)
    2) to create new fonts forums and edict the main rules, rules that i've just fine-tuned.

    Now that you're better informed, if you have complaints about me or the rules, please refer to the administrator.

    ---

    Spider, about your suggestion, i would want to remind all of you about one point : to add a post restriction is at the discretion of the poster. Some use it, some don't. I'm using it, fixing a low limit in a precise aim : to motivate members to share and contribute, not forgetting of course what i've already mentioned : to offset the publicity of this forum. It worked for me : as i was frustrated to be unable to download, i've started to post.

    As i'm a fair person, i've started to contribute, rather than spamming. But eh, this forum is just like the society : there are fair and nice persons, and there are whiners and profiteers. Some new members will contribute, some don't.

    The administrator and owner, as far i know, is fine with the current rules. It makes senses : he has promulgated them, and asked to us, moderators, to uphold them.

    Personally, i'm open to suggestions and can compilate them to report it to the administrator.

  6. #21
    ink
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    "Lol.

    You are talking as this forum was kind an extension of the democracy. But this is not a democracy. This is a kingdom. A kingdom which belongs to the administrator and owner. As the owner, he may decree whathever he wants, whathever he likes."

    In this case, he has decreed two things recently :

    1) as you're especially talking of me in your message : at my request, to appoint me as a moderator (not forgetting morpheo1967)
    2) to create new fonts forums and edict the main rules, rules that i've just fine-tuned.

    Now that you're better informed, if you have complaints about me or the rules, please refer to the administrator.
    You are wrong in that. And you ought to be ashamed for even expressing that publicly as it betrays how autocratic your motives are. Just imagine what would become of society had you been placed in a more critical position. This is a public internet forum governed by rules of conventional forums legally in the US and socially in most English-speaking forums. We are not your subjects. Let me remind you that we provide the contents that make this site even viable and useful.

    If you claim a kingdom type of management, let me remind you as well, that prior to your membership here that that is not the nature of the Terms of Agreement we initially agreed upon when we first came here last year. Also, if that is how you claim it to be, since this now forms part of the records here, will you agree then that should the site face in any forms of litigations and complaints, you and the owner claim full responsibility and indemnification?

    I am asking that question because I am telling you that on two occasions font owners entered this forum and berated me for posting a link that contains their alleged files. Naturally, I just took it down to prevent any further complaints. Should that happen again, can users automatically ask the complaining member to simply ask you for restitution, as after all, this is a kingdom and the king is responsible for the whole. (Or in your case, one of the ambitious subjects who usurped the parliament titles not by pedigree, breeding and merit but by sheer request and kingly patronage. I wonder what Anne Boleyn did to the king.)

    You ought to know that I am a member of other font forums; two of which have been legally closed-down for good because of copyright infringement. That was what brought me to this site. And I really hate (let me repeat that, I hate) to see this site disappear.

    And so I caution the entire whole to be a little discreet about their titles. If possible, place your proper filenames on the tag section below your post. And please hide your links or use the code tags and upload it somewhere else with a slightly different filename.
    Last edited by ink; 11-30-2013 at 04:51 AM.

  7. #22
    Moderator swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute
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    Please... stop to get on one's high horse, and using erroneous parables. Relax.

    You are arguing about an autocracy, while it's actually more like a... constitutional monarchy. See : you can argue, debate, complain, speak freely. You're almost a free subject :D Don't worry, i'm a subject too, and i always keep in mind that my residence permit may be revoked at any moment ;)

    About the risks, yes what we are doing here (i mean about sharing commercial stuff) is illegal almost everywhere (it's legal to download... illegal stuff in my country, but not to share it. Yeah, that's a very lovely and weird country).

    So, there are some risks. For any member, for you, and for me. But there are far away more risks for the owner of this forum. I would even say that's him we have to thank first : to mainly carry the risks but nevertheless let us sharing illegal content.

    And admit it, since the creation of the new Fonts forum and the promulgation of some new rules, it has became a lovely place, free of junk and still full of quality stuff ;)

  8. #23
    ink
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    A Lovely Place?


    And admit it, since the creation of the new Fonts forum and the promulgation of some new rules, it has became a lovely place, free of junk and still full of quality stuff ;)
    We can look at it both ways. This site has always been helpful with or without the new font section. The internal search index finds all the articles with the typed keywords anyway but the rules we just overtly set in place legally takes away the right of printroot.com to disclaim control over its own contents. And that is the easiest hole to close the entire site down. That's why I'm bothered. It only took three months before the last site I was a member of to be closed for good. And if we're all ok with that, then I believe we better back-up the entire site as of this date because I'm telling you, some people devote their lives closing-down other people's happiness. I've seen it happen several times already, including "demonoid."

    P.S. Anne Boleyn's usurpation is not an erroneous proverb. The Boleyn courtesan "tried" to usurp parliamentary powers through her influence to the king and Thomas Cromwell which angered entire Europe and even some people today for such audacity. History will never look favorably and kindly upon despots and tyrannical systems or characters. In our times, you must know that that is strongly frowned-upon across all cultures. Adrian Lamo (former hacker-hero) realized the ire and shunning of the entire internet community after he betrayed Manning because people just hate people who side with things that impede their freedoms.


    If you desire obedience, you request agreement by showing why something is right. You never impose. If you do, trust me, you will only get frustrated with the results. Again and again. Because humans comply not because something was imposed, but because they ultimately understood it to be right, and they have loved it.
    Last edited by ink; 11-30-2013 at 05:37 AM.

  9. #24
    Moderator swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute
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    That is obviously bad faith.

    No one can seriously pretends that the Resources forum was really such an helpful place.

    Just have a look at the so many duplicate requests there was there. Trying to clean the Resources forum, i have often deleted 20-30 of the same request posts ! I find every day tons of dead links, duplicate releases, partial releases, incomplete and/or corrupted files. Not mentioning the useless, empty, without any info posts.

    There was every day many complaints and calls for help from members. Finally, i have seen so many posts calling for moderating this so-called lovely place than i cannot even count them.

    It was not a clean and helpful place before. It was a kindergarden and a complete anarchy (and sadly not in the good sense of the term). The only logical reason to complain about the new forums and rules are frustration, non-conformism and nostalgia of a place where junk was the standard.

    Each day i receive by PM compliments and thanks. Plus, judging by the quantity of posts every day in Fonts forums, it seems so that a large majority is glad of the new system.

    Now, i'm tired to hear the same erroneous arguments again and again. We had a very thorough and frank discussion. I have explained my point of view and carefully listened up yours.

    Now, as said, if you have any complaints about the new rules, feel free to refer to the administrator, who is the only person able to modify them.

    Take care, Swit.
    Last edited by swit; 11-30-2013 at 06:20 AM. Reason: grammar

  10. #25
    Moderator swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute swit has a reputation beyond repute
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    To close, as for me, this sterile debate, i would just add this :

    The new rules in Fonts forums are way more protectionist than in the past in Resources.
    • Each download link must be hided to non-registered members (and so for Google), that it was absolutely not the case before : probably the half, if not more, of the download links were visible.
    • Most of the old posts i've seen in Resources by the past were linking to unprotected zip files. Now, it is a mandatory, and even if we obviously cannot monitor all the files, most of them are now password-protected.
    • Finally, most of the regular posters are now scribbling, at least a bit, the name of their zip files.

    Swit.

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  12. #26
    ink
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    Quote Originally Posted by swit View Post
    That is obviously bad faith...Trying to clean the Resources forum, i have often deleted 20-30 of the same request posts ! I find every day tons of dead links, duplicate releases, partial releases, incomplete and/or corrupted files. Not mentioning the useless, empty, without any info posts...
    That is not bad faith. I must commend you for the effort and the organization. It really is neat. However, you are forgetting that this site is not a font archive or library but a forum. It is NOT also a file-sharing site. I hope you have read that there's a DMCA policy in the rules. But file-sharing is tolerated on the pretext that this forum has little control over what its members post.

    We can only encourage members but NEVER overtly impose rules on what they post, bordering on actually dictating that they pirate copyrighted stuff. Such rules can only be implied but never imposed officially, otherwise we will be inviting unwanted attention and closure because it now appears that the forum itself has full control over its contents, and even on external links. That is what we desire to avoid. We also want to avoid scaring or alienating people who are new to this site and who have something to share or post by telling them that their post is faulty.

    There will be some measure of anarchy, that's for sure. All systems began with some form of chaos. Where do you think did this site began from? It has achieved this level because there were very few rules imposed, that most did not follow. The moment we increase the restriction, member participation becomes exclusive and daunting. What a moderator could probably do is to simply re-edit things.

  13. #27
    Member lanie1971 is a splendid one to behold lanie1971 is a splendid one to behold lanie1971 is a splendid one to behold lanie1971 is a splendid one to behold lanie1971 is a splendid one to behold lanie1971 is a splendid one to behold lanie1971 is a splendid one to behold
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    I think the rules are fair and reasonable. It took me a few days to get with the program, and I think the moderators are doing a bang up job, considering they dont get paid.

  14. #28
    Junior Member lheckxsz is on a distinguished road
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    the restrictions are put there for a reason.. we should just all obey them. if not, we are always free to go find some other forum where there are no restrictions. nobody is forcing anybody here.

  15. #29
    Banned Dreverb is on a distinguished road
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    hello all, just my opinion (i'm almost new here) I agree with the last post, it's like having dinner at someone else's home. If you don`t like the food or the rules, you are always free to leave...

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  17. #30
    Banned webfaster is on a distinguished road
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    I love the "thanks" button. I think it's a very good idea !

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